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Reader Comments (147)

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:57PM Channel84 said

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I concur the author note about bioware spending big budget in the wrong area.
Imo and please do not bash me cos this is just my personal 2cent, mmo developer should improve the core game play of mmo and bring it to another new level. And i have doubt whether story telling is what the genre need at the moment as most player are getting tired of the same old same old from wow and rift

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 3:03PM Rhodanum said

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I agree with a good deal of what has been said in this article -- with the added caveat that I haven't had the pleasure of a hands-on approach with either of these upcoming MMOs (limited funds and living in the arse-end of Europe make for a very convention-dry life :P).

I'm pretty firmly in the crowd of people that's not distinctly impressed with all I've seen of TOR so far. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying this just for the sake of bashing the game or because I dislike popular MMOs or anything else along those lines. There simply isn't that spark that makes me go 'oi, must have this! Yesterday, preferably!' My stance might change once I get to actually play it -- or it might not. I have no way of knowing right now and I leave judgment of fine gameplay mechanics to those who made it into the beta, when the NDA finally drops.

Either way, I suspect I'll be buying the game -- a few months after the launch madness. RIFT's server queues were a pain and something tells me that this is going to be ten times that, even with the staggered release! I'm a SW fan and an even bigger KOTOR aficionado and I genuinely want this game to succeed. The thing is that it's just leaving me with a very, very '....oh' impression right now and it remains to be seen how long it'll manage to actually keep me subbed once I hit level cap with both factions.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 3:15PM Spacegrass said

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Guild Wars 2 seems more intriguing the more I hear about it. In most MMOs, you have to choose between playing DPS (and never getting into instances) or tank/healer (and taking forever to do solo quests). It's about time someone did away with that system. I'm committed to playing SWTOR, but I don't see any reason not to play both games.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 10:39PM x4str0m3ch said

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dude, chill. I was commenting on the fact that basically every single massively article on the topic of "hands on TOR experience" is negatively biased. I didn't say it couldn't be biased, or that an opinion piece shouldn't be biased.

No, I'm just saying it would be nice to hear some positive things about the production, as opposed to someone basically writing "Well, it wasn't really doing the trick for me."

Has nothing to do with this author specifically, or any author specifically. Or any article individually. I'm saying that, on the whole, massively has been reviewing the game negatively, and that I would like to see them write something positive.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 4:43PM Mynsc said

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Huge props for writing what is obviously an honest opinion, even though you knew you were placing yourself in front of a huge rage train. More of this please here on Massively!

Related to your conclusions, I whole heartedly agree when it comes to GW2 and SW:TOR. It is indeed absolutely crazy that a game with no release date and not even in beta yet is more open and showing more content and mechanics than one that is launching in less than 3 months. Either it's the weirdest marketing strategy I ever witnessed or they're in some kind of trouble.

As to the games themselves... about one year ago I thought I was going to have a very hard choice to make: which of these two will I play? Boy was I wrong... GW2 all the way with absolutely no doubts.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 10:04PM (Unverified) said

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@Mynsc


You are a moron. For everyone who has been paying even a glimmer of attention, every single feature and mechanic in SWTOR has been playable and played in one of the many demo events. So don't come with that nonsense that so little is known, because that's a lie.
Besides, 'more like this article in Massively'? Lol, now this is hypocrisy :-)
Why? You just want to get your ears tickled, you dont want an honest article, you just want articles that say EXACTLY how *you* feel about this or that game. In this case: you're obviously a fanboi of GW2 and meh about SWTOR, the article told exactly that, so here you are, rejoicing about the article: not because it's honest, but because it's telling you what you want to hear, namely your own opinion and taste.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 5:03PM Acidbaron said

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As expected and feared from other people opinions that i've read before it seems to go down that path i think i'll let SW:ToR pass me by for now, too much hype and too much doubt , nor the first mmo from EA that managed to release poorly executed. Guess this time around it will atleast not be a buggy mess.

It is however true we see very little in diversity of the demo's swtor gives, it's the starter areas and warfronts, while if we have to believe them the game has so much more content to offer.
The combination of those factors also made my alarm bells go off.

I also agree with the funds they thrown at this game to still completely play it safe, is a disappointment for a veteran of the genre.

What i am surprised to read now is that also it isn't as immersive due to the voice acting and all that as it first portrayed if i have to go on your experience, i was expecting that to be atleast well done as that was bioware their poster child from day one, story, story, story and some more story, bring the rpg story telling into the mmo genre, so could very well be that demo but then they really missed their chance.

Guess i'll wait and see what GW2 and TSW deliver, from funcom i can atleast always expect something different often too ambitious for their own good and guild wars 1 didn't do anything for me, so i'll wait and see with the sequal yet i remain very skeptical about that title aswel.

ps: i don't respond to fanboy rage.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 6:56PM (Unverified) said

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@Acidbaron

The guy played 10 minutes or less when you subtract the time he was checking the character selection screen. Do you find that time any good to determine how an MMORPG is?

Besides, there have been other game journalists from renowned sites and magazines with more time to play that were satisfied and enthusiastic about the controls and questing system.
Also, people have played in mid level zones and in Flashpoints (dungeons) and PvP and Operations (raids). Which is a lot more than the starter areas and warfronts, as you claim.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 7:55PM Randomessa said

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@(Unverified)

If Bioware wanted people to take more than 10 minutes to form an impression of gameplay, maybe they should have made more than 10 minutes of a pre-created character starter experience available to those who attend these cons.

Whether or not one appreciates GW2's style or gameplay, the fact is that the better product (for the purpose of demonstration) is the one that lets people have fun with it for 40 minutes and do pretty much what they wanted.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 9:58PM (Unverified) said

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@Randomessa

They have, at other conventions. In fact, Massively staff has been there as well playing for more than 10 minutes. People who knew more about the MMORPG's that are appearing and their mechanics and features as well.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 5:18PM WrecklessMEDIC said

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Obviously SWTOR has been set-up as WoW in space or WoW with lightsabers. Why wouldn't they copy the most successful MMO in history? BioWare would be foolish to try and reinvent the wheel here. They've taken what works and made a few adjustments. Nothing ground-breaking. And that's just the way I like it. If it ain't broke don't fix it. SWTOR is bound to make a fortune simply because it is so similar to WoW. They designed it that way on purpose. :)

Posted: Oct 2nd 2011 6:14PM doublerainbow said

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@WrecklessMEDIC

That's is pretty much how I feel. Besides change happens over time, and there seem to be few occurrences where something defied the odds and brought excessive change early. The Guild Wars 2 team is just bringing to the table what they learned from their past Blizzard experience. Bioware is bringing what it does best to its side of the table.
Personally I would rather have a Bioware WoW with lightsabers, because these guys are masters of the RPG. I feel WoW has little to no RPG in it, and I love that Anet and Bioware are bringing that back!

Good Stuff.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 5:26PM (Unverified) said

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OK, if it does end up being a polished WoW-clone in space with voice acting, so what?
I've always believed that the jaded WoW crowd has always been waiting for a graphically updated version of WoW.
If it 'feels' as smooth as WoW and plays just as well BUT with shinier graphics, wouldn't the sheep jump over?
I think that's the gamble EA/Bioware has taken. Time will tell if their gamble was right.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 6:04PM Softserve said

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I'm interested in SWTOR, but it's hard to find the writer's impressions surprising. Go watch a few developer videos about the game, such as that one battle against the turrets near some sort of space vault. Tell me that's not exactly like WOW.

It's really damn similar. And given it's age, it's reasonable to assume that we'd see something more out of a totally new MMORPG than slightly more involved story mechanics.

I think it'll win a lot of people over, there's a lot of potential in the game. And I'm sure there are a lot of people still looking for a solid sci-fi MMORPG... I have this pre-ordered, but I'm not going to pretend that I wouldn't have liked controls and systems that were different or more direct. I would have.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 6:27PM ssbobbyh said

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There is a glaring flaw in the logic of those who believe that a WoW clone is the safest and most profitable investment.

Why would I play a WoW copy if I could just play WoW?

It takes a LOT to pry someone from their MMO. After a while, communities are built, friendships and rivalries are developed, and memories are always being made.

It gets to the point where it takes a either very good and different MMO to come out OR something horribly wrong to happen to the current MMO they are playing to get people to leave. We've seen this over and over and over again with WoW clones: people leave for a moment, and go flocking back to the familiar, yet sometimes lower quality, environment of WoW.

This is why I am very disappointed in what Bioware has done with SWTOR. I still hold out hope that it will be decent, but if I simply wanted an awesome story, I'd read a book (Mass Effect novels are surprisingly good, btw.) It is only when story meets good and unique gameplay that something magical can happen.

Unfortunatly, I'm just not seeing it in SWTOR, yet. I would have preordered if I did.

I AM seeing a gleam of hope from GW2 as I have yet to see a negative review in the mainstream. It's innovative, not because of a unique style of gameplay. It's unique because it refuses to simply copy and paste the style of an already well established game and hope to go head to head with it. It borrows the good from many RPG games and meshes them in a surprisingly cohesive experience. If all goes well, I'll preorder. If it doesn't go well, I think that a failure of both GW2 and SWTOR will cause a steady decline in the popularity of MMOs as a whole. Or maybe Secret World or Tera will take up the mantle...

Well, we are all gamers first, and we should hope that both these games do amazingly. Here's hoping that both SWTOR and GW2 exceed all our expectations.

TL;DR

I'm disappointed Bioware didn't take risks with SWTOR and instead opted to compete with WoW using WoW's interface. This has a VERY low success rate. A story, no matter how great, can only go so far in an MMO.

As I've essentially only seen positive reviews of GW2, I can still hold out hope that it will be revolutionary; or at least the beginning of a change in how MMOs are developed.

Well, we are all gamers first, and we should hope that both these games do amazingly. Here's hoping that both SWTOR and GW2 exceed all our expectations.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 6:45PM (Unverified) said

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@ssbobbyh

Sorry, but LotrO and Rift have been pretty successful in entertaining hundreds of thousands of players for more than a few months, as well as Aion that still has like 100 servers worldwide and over a million players (talking worldwide here, that included other continents than just North America or Europe)

As for people wanting to play another MMORPG, 200,000 left EQ when WoW came even if there were quite a lot of similarities between EQ and WoW, heck, a number of the lead designers were fanatic EQ gamers.

What people often forget is that MMO gamers might be tired of playing WoW, but that doesn't mean that they're also tired of playing themepark MMO's.
After all, someone can be tired of one shooter game but still interested in playing other newer shooters even if the core mechanics are basically the same.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 7:05PM ssbobbyh said

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@(Unverified)

I apologize. I meant to stipulate that there is a very LOW probability that the game will be successful.

I cite Runes of Magic, Allods, Age of Conan to an extent, and Talisman are some examples of clones that enjoy a certain level of success. However, if SWTOR is aiming to have similar success of the majority of other WoW based games on the market, i think they set their bar much to low for a subscription based game.

I don't think that Bioware will be able to say that they will be successful with numbers even like that of LotRO.

I may be wrong, as I am many times. But I personally expected ALOT more from Bioware in terms of gameplay. The gameplay of their other IPs made me want to listen to the story, and the story made me want to play the game even more. In my opinion, these two elements must BOTH be memorable for a great game. I guess I was hoping for better game play and will have to settle for a good story based WoW game.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 7:18PM (Unverified) said

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@ssbobbyh

You can stipulate all you like, but in the end it's still just your own subjective speculation. And I can cite LotrO, Aion and Rift as well as examples of themepark MMO's - or 'clones' as themepark haters/critics or burnt out, jaded MMO vets often like to call current themepark MMO's - that have been doing quite well and been quite successful for a long, long time.

As your example of AoC, you might have given a better example with WAR, because AoC one might be the least similar to WoW of all the themepark MMO's - in looks, in its zone based world, in (melee) combat mechanics with its free targeting combat, directional shielding and fatalities, in guildcities and VO/cinematic cutscene questing as well in its more adult and low fantasy theme.
Besides, AoC failed because it was rushed to release, with not enough polish and finetuning and tweaking, the same problem with Vanguard, and this is just the thing that WoW was excellent in.

In the end, we'll have to see how things will go, but there are precedents of themepark MMO's that did very well in the period of time after WoW launched.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 7:48PM WrecklessMEDIC said

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@ssbobbyh I'm pretty confident from what I've seen that SWTOR will easily become the 2nd biggest sub-based MMO out there within the first year. And the 2 main reasons it will do so well is because;

A) It plays like WoW
and
B) It's Star Wars

Most of the people playing WoW right now are tired of it and looking for something new. But they don't need something radically different. They just want to change it up with some new quests and new scenery. And if in the end SWTOR can hold them off from returning to WoW with a few better features, then WoW will be in serious trouble. As the old saying goes; "Keep it simple _____" ;)
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 10:16PM xBludx said

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I don't know why people are so emotional about this article. There are zillions of articles on this game. Why can't someone not be impressed? I doubt it will change anyone's mind.

It is as if people are waiting for their MMORPG savior to come and to speak ill of this great hope of salvation is blasphemy. It's just a game.

I've watched leaked beta videos of gameplay and my impressions were really close to Drain's. So what? I will still probably buy the game and give it a try at some point for the experience, but it's just a game in the end.

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