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Reader Comments (147)

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 1:57PM Knuxson said

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I understand the concern for SWToR. If Bioware expects it to last for several years I would have hoped they would have attempted to innovate on MMO gameplay a little. That said, I don't necessarily dislike the old MMO style combat and, if done well, it feels nice to be in familiar territory. This is especially true for me if other aspects of the game such as story are done really well. I will definitely play this game up to level cap just to experience the story that Bioware has crafted. Then, if there are things to do beside warzones and operations, I will decide if it is worth it to stick around.

Guild Wars 2 does sound very impressive. I get tired of the holy trinity because it can make combat so rigid. I am very interested in trying out Guild Wars 2's take on MMO combat. The personality options for determining story elements also is intriguing. I hope to hear more about that in the near future.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:08PM memoryx22 said

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I agree with this article. Bioware had a chance to make something truly great, but instead they decide to give us more of the same. Guild Wars 2 is actually bringing something new to the table. I love how as soon as an article that cans SWTOR is released all the fan boys come out and hate on it. Lol, Massively is biased? Take a look in the mirror and then say whose biased. Thank you Brendan for the great article, and please ignore all the haters.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:16PM tythimo said

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@memoryx22 I agree, good article Brendan.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:50PM Arctic Frog said

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@memoryx22
I totally agree, even though I'm bot a huge SW-fan and looking forward to TOR. But I am very dissapointed with Bioware taking the safe route, and not even trying to bring us out of select-and-cast. I had really high hopes for them doing something really great with TOR, but instead they are basically giving us WoW 2.0 in sci-fi.

And I like that Massively takes the word and tell it as it is, not just follow the hype-train and rain sparkles and rainbows on TOR at every opportunity. Sure, it probably will be a great game, but if there were no negatives being mentioned about the game, I'd for one say that something smells quite fishy.

tl;dr: I agree with the article. Very disappointed by choice of combat (same old WoW), but still looking forward to playing. Had certainly hoped for more innovation when it comes to _how_ the game is played. GW2 is stepping in the right direction. And I like reading articles that addresses the negatives, not just hype it.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 3:10PM KDolo said

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@memoryx22

I think it's because Trion was never challenged like this when they said, "We're not in Azeroth anymore," suggesting their game was different, whereas BioWare has never suggested anything of the kind and they're getting bashed for doing exactly what they said they were.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 5:10PM Threecubed said

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@memoryx22
I hear a lot of praise for the combat of Guild Wars 2, yet the positional attacks aren't new, there are plenty of games with twitch combat (in full or in part) like DDO's melee swing system and Vindictus/Dragon Nest with ranged attacks.
Is GW2 going to have more satisfying combat than those games? Probably, it looks really fun to me, as I really enjoy the combat of the games mentioned above, and we should expect it to be more enjoyable, both as a newer release and since ArenaNet has hyped it up so much.

Next, I wonder how well the average MMO player will adapt to adding survival in to the faceroll DPS especially in endgame, and I hope the difficulty has tiers (omg it'd be a WoW clone then!) if only to preserve the challenge for those who adapt more quickly.
Removing the tank and healer roles just means DPS will be playing an easier game (read: less chances to fail) than a standard MMO or they'll have to be better players. Then again, hasn't no strict tank or healer roles been done in another game? I'm sure GW2 isn't the first to do it... maybe the first fantasy-styled MMO to do so.

Despite the concerns, I'm excited to see if that works, especially if that leaks through to other games, in terms of the individual being in-charge of themselves.

While The Old Republic is giving us WoW-like combat, remember that GW2's combat has be done before too.
Can't all us MMO fans hope that both games push the boundaries of MMO combat, SWTOR with hot-key combat, and GW2 with positionally twitch-based combat inspired by MMO/beat-em-up hybrids?

/kumbaya
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 6:51PM (Unverified) said

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@memoryx22

The guy played SWTOR for 10 minutes, didn't even know as an MMO journalist that SWTOR used traditional combat mechanics, and you thought it was a great article? And you think you aren't biased?

Wow, if there's any bias and prejudice then it's this: clearly you're looking forward to GW2 and dislike SWTOR, so that's the sole reason that a journalistically bad article as this is agreeable to you, obviously.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 8:16PM Borick said

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@(Unverified) Too much hate.

There's a big difference between "didn't know" and "doesn't like". I know that Bioware isn't selling an action-MMO, and that's probably a draw for those who love the established MMO paradigm, but I wasn't impressed.

There are those who are drawn to newer innovations in game mechanics, who might be less impressed by what seems (to them) like the same-old, same-old.

Brendan made no claim to having spent dozens of hours playing the game -- he gave his impressions. I've seen the game played at demo events, and I had the same impression.

It's okay to be a fan of a game. It's okay to be a cynic about a game, but it's abusive to flame the author for his opinion.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 9:18PM corpusc said

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@Threecubed

" yet the positional attacks aren't new, there are plenty of games with twitch combat (in full or in part) like DDO's melee swing system and Vindictus/Dragon Nest with ranged attacks. "

for us instance haters, it would be fairly new, cuz we don't play those kind of fake "MMOs" like the 3 you mentioned. GW2 is at least a hybrid MMO with open world gameplay areas.

and while its been kinda been done before in smaller little known MMOs its QUITE new for a big budget AAA title.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 9:54PM (Unverified) said

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@Borick

Borick, you're talking BS: read the article, and you find out that he DIDN'T know what kind of combat SWTOR had, now what kind of self respecting MMORPG game journalist DOES NOT know one of those basic elementary things in 1 of the major AAA titles that arrives on the scene, a fact about SWTOR's combat that has been known for 1-2 years and that most MMO gamers know?

So don't be an ass, that you're coming in your pants for everything that is new and innovative and have foolishly gotten yourself burnt out on traditional themepark MMO gameplay doesn't mean that everyone has. Mileage may vary, and some people haven't been playing MMORPG's for thousands of hours till they wasted their enjoyment in a number of MMO gameplay aspects away.

The article writer gave his opinion of less than 10 minutes of gameplay, added to that as an MMORPG game journalist he knew less than most MMO gamers about the basic features of a big game in the field he's supposed to be journalist in that arrives within months.
That sounds sloppy as a true game journalist to me, and I'm saying it how I see it. Even he would have been positive, I'd have raised my eyebrows at someone, a game journalist who gives his impressions about less than 10 minutes gameplay, just as I laughed out loud when I saw a game journalist write a (p)review about a game only to admit in the same article that he didn't play it but just watched a presentation on screen. I couldn't take that journalist reviewer serious anymore after that. To me, their statements just sounded like 'page filler' and 'content filler', in the sense of 'hey, I was unable to do some serious digging and investigating but I have to write something about the topic so here it is'.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 9:56PM (Unverified) said

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@corpusc

AoC uses positional attacks as well, it even has collision detection, as in you can't just walk through other players.
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Posted: Oct 2nd 2011 2:26AM memoryx22 said

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@(Unverified)

Do you actually think that he didn't now about SWTOR's combat, or rather supposed combat? Have you ever played the game to now exactly how its combat feels and plays like, or are you just assuming that because you played WoW you know how any game with that style of combat plays? What your saying that the author didn't know what kind of combat SWTOR had but you know, knew a whole tone of information about the origins of that type of combat.

"Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting."

This kind of MMO combat was made so that slow computers can run it. Tell me, what is the use of having a super awesome computer, when developers are making games to the lowest common denominator? If computers nowadays are able to handle more than this kind of combat, then why are we stuck playing it in pretty much ALL MMOs? I am willing to bet that the answer to this is laziness. Don't worry, you'll get to play your standard MMO combat, but I recognize that it's the 21st century, and I want to play a game from the 21st century.
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Posted: Oct 2nd 2011 6:47AM Gaugamela said

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@KDolo

Yeah, if you take one line from a commercial and take it as a promise.
Trion in every freakin interview stated that their game was an evolution of the traditional MMO and not a revolution. THE COMBAT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT.

And there's a big difference between bashing a start-up company like Trion or a well-established studio like Bioware who has kind of a big name to live up to.

For me it seems more of a case of you being butthurt by Trion success.
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Posted: Oct 4th 2011 9:46PM kingjiggly said

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@(Unverified) The people who only played for 10 minutes AND gave good reviews should also be ignored, right? I say we wait till Beta, and see what eveeryone says then.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:15PM tythimo said

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It surprises me how many people think MMOs must have the holy trinity in order to have good group play. I hope GW2 can prove the naysayers wrong. As group play should be at the core of an MMO, I want the dynamics of that experience to evolve. Not stay the same for 20 years.

Posted: Oct 3rd 2011 2:07AM (Unverified) said

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@tythimo : Could not agree more. We've had twelve and a half years of EverQuest's group dynamics, please, give us something different for a change. I don't want to see a rebel trooper soaking up hits from a raid boss for 10 minutes while a group of jedi stand there force-healing him, and another group stand behind the boss backstabbing it with lightsabers.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:33PM HokieKC said

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Bioware's co-founder admitted several months ago WoW was the model for TOR and they weren't going to move away from it.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan and their decision to follow the WoW model THAT closely is saddening.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:47PM Borick said

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Awesome article. Guild Wars 2 can't come soon enough.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:50PM jesus7474 said

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just to remind us…the 100m dollars game, ie:Rift, is a WoW + Warhammer copy cat , and it is going strong these days.

I am sure that TOR will also go strong, even with it’s familiar game play mechanics, cause it has much more to offer than pure combat game play.

oh , one small thing , WoW did not innovate shit , instead it mixed some stuff from other games (old and new) , and had some success I say.

Posted: Oct 1st 2011 2:55PM DevilSei said

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To be fair, I doubt the reason they didn't let you play around in Character Creation was because it wasn't ready. Rather it was likely to get people into playing the game, not the creator for those 10 minutes. It's disappointing though that they gave attendees 10 minutes, which is too short a time limit to get a feel of any game, not just MMOs. Besides, I'm sure the tutorial stages have been used multiple times by now in conventions and I doubt anyone is looking forward to those same quests, they need to get more out there.

I love GW2, let's leave it at that.
Also, curious about End of Nations... bout it.

And, I have a feeling that Dark Souls will be the most brutal game covered in Not So Massively... Loved Demon's Souls, and I have Dark Souls pre-ordered months ago, and I'm just waiting for Tuesday to go and pick it up.

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