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Reader Comments (49)

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:06AM Lucidus said

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I don't mind "attunement" as long as (1) there is no grind (i.e. get 2000 boar hides) and (2) the quest involved is well done and entertaining.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:54AM DarkWalker said

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@Lucidus

While I agree with you, I would add a third point: the attunement is completely soloable.

Otherwise players who want to attune to old content are in for a nasty surprise when they discover that finding groups is quite harder than it should be.

Also, attunement chains that require groups make it so that any group that needs to bring a new player would be tied running him through the attunement chain (thus often completely removing any degree of challenge for the player himself, as the group is most likely overgeared for the attunement chain)
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 10:20AM aurickle said

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@DarkWalker
That's the catch right there. If the attunement can't be done without other players you're stuck with either:

A) Trivialized content as you get your higher level guildmates to help. This is made worse by the fact that it also represents yet another demand on raiding guildmates' time.
B) Inability to attune since there are a limited number of people getting the attunement at any given time after the initial gold rush is over.

The other inherent problem in attunements that require groups has to do with older content that is no longer at the cap. Once a raid has been passed by so that it's no longer required to get the best gear, that raid finds very few groups running it anymore. Add non-soloable attunements in and the devs almost might as well just remove the dungeon entirely since "few" will drop to almost nobody.
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 11:12AM (Unverified) said

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@Lucidus


Well I agree about the 2000 boarhide grind would be ridiculous, there should also be some effort in them. I'm sick of "new" people joining a guild and instantly being able to jump in the raid and gain items and other noteriety without putting the effort into it that other guild members have.

As for entertainment, I think the Karazahan attunment key quests were very entertaining.
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 12:50PM CheesecakeBandit said

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@(Unverified) Yes, how dare people have fun playing a game they paid for without working in it like a second(now all too often third) job. In fact, they should force people to work for the game company without pay for 20 hours a week to be able to go play even a non raiding alt. HOW DARE THEY HAVE FUN WITHOUT WORK!

in other words, no, you can't make other people work extra hard to have fun just because you did so without questioning how stupid that practice is.

Personally, I think having attunements to begin with is pointless. If you want people to run the content, MAKE IT FUN AND ENGAGING, don't hide what might be fun behind it to make people play longer.
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 3:27PM Deadalon said

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For me its not a question of having attunements. Its a question how the developer add it into the game. Attunements should be used for ppl to get to know the story and the dungeons they go into. The most horror of 5 mans in WOW is that ppl can once again do em without even knowing where they are. Why create a world if you then just sit in a lobby pressing 1 button without knowing anything about why you are going there.

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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:13AM Ehra said

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Meh, not really. If made interesting enough it can be a nice change of pace every now and then (I'm thinking of the old Onyxia event in Stormwind) but usually they're, like you said, a hassle put in place to keep you from doing the content you want to do. They're one of those things that don't serve a purpose outside of wasting time, but if you omit them you get that group of gaming masochists that accuse you of dumbing down the game for instant gratification kiddies. Usually the same people that fondly look back to their EQ1 days and claim, with a straight face, that hour/day long mob spawn camping sessions is good gameplay.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:14AM Sephirah said

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Only a bit.
Not as a gating method, but as a way to develop the story (so they should not be uberhard).
Taking WoW as example, TBC attunements were fine up to T5, T6 ones were a real PITA.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:14AM (Unverified) said

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I did enjoy attunements, especially when doing it with members from my guild where it brought us together for doing them and working on team work prior to raiding.

The Onyxia chain was fun, the Karazhan and beyond chains were as well. This was, of course, prior to the emphasis on item level. Now instances are gated off based on a players average item level, not for completing a quest.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:14AM Dumac said

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Sometimes it makes sense, like that Tempest Keep 5-man instance in TBC, it's a prison, the door should be locked, you should need a key to get in. Though it wasn't hard to obtain, i believe it was two fragments, or just two other bosses. And it was nice being the one in the group with the key, as a mage like i was, you appreciate any opportunity to be of other use than the pew pew guy.

Not all or most of the dungeons/raids of course. One or two with an attunement requirement for sensible reasons is enough. Just to add that little bit of variety.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:19AM Bhagpuss said

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Attunement, no. Key quests very much yes.

There's something that's just intrinsically satisfying about finding the key to unlock a door. It just feels like a natural thing to do.

I'm not a fan of making the process long and drawn out for the sake of it, and I would make the keys Heirloom, but I'd actually prefer to have to find the key to get through a locked door and then see the door open rather than just automagically zone through it.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:19AM (Unverified) said

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Gating is just a way to slow people down and hold them back due to lack of content, well in the way it works in AoC i.e. in it's simplist form. complete this mission before you can do this content.

If used in some of the better ways mentioned above then maybe.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:20AM Strangeland said

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I prefer attunement and quest chains or rare mats for end-game items and raids. Getting the Drakefire amulet to access Onexia's lair was a logical story-line goal and extra sense of achievement for those who did it. Getting the mats for my Pally's epic mount, etc. I don't think it should be the *only* way to progress or have a sense of achievement, but there is nothing wrong and everything right about providing optional and special rewards, raids/experiences that are accessible only by acquiring items that require more dedicated questing.lore following/mat gathering etc.

Simply rolling out the welcome mat to every item and experience for every player no matter what their achievement level is simply cheapens the overall experience for everyone else. Put some rare fruit out there that is accessible by a variety of epic means (whether crafting, exploring, grinding, questing, or whatever) and reward the intrepid that achieve it by those means.


Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:26AM Kuroyume said

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i like them in the sense that they provide a story leading you to the content they open. I don't like them in the sense that they keep you out of content.

SOlution? keep the quest chains, lose the locks

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:30AM angryhoar said

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Because of the attunements, TBC will forever be one of my fondest gaming memories.
Even after getting my keys and reaching beyond SSC I enjoyed running the dungeons to infinity. Karazhan, Gruul, Maggy, TK *sigh*
I remember many other folks enjoying the crap out of running the old dungeons right up to the last patch before WoTLK.

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:39AM heerobya said

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Back in the day... TBC WoW, Dark Portal on Heroic was actually difficult, and you HAD to do it before getting into Karazahn - it made people up their game and get gear from other heroics/regulars and crafting.

In essence, you had to prove you could hack it before you could start to take on the game's more challenging content.

Umm... duh? Brilliant idea am I right?

We had a couple of the few tanks (me) and healers on the server who could get people through Dark Portal on heroic, so we'd make sure all of our DPS was up to snuff by using Dark Portal and Arcatraz as their pre-raid testing.

Now?

Just mindlessly lose PvP bg's and inflate your item level so you can waste space and other people's time in heroics!

Much better system... yeah...

WOTLK taught bads that all content was for them too! Hurray! Easy content for everyone!

But hey, as long as everyone gets a Gold Star and everyone feels happy and no one is offended... right Western culture?

Current WoW - hard modes for top 2% and the other 98% share the rest of the game... which means a very good player without the time I used to have (me) is lumped in with the mouth breathers (huntards, retadins) in the other 98%.

3 DIFFICULT MODES -

1. Casual (lol what's CC and focus fire?!@?)
2. Normal (hey I remember this game!)
3. Heroic (wall? Meet head - start bashing)

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:51AM Cyclone Jack said

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@heerobya

As someone who rarely raided (the only raid I actually participated in was Kara, though I did OT Gruul's a few times), but greatly enjoyed Heroics (as a Tank) in BC, I'd have to agree with what you stated. LK was just flat-out horrible. I actually had more fun soloing BC Heroics than 5-manning anything in LK. Though I will admit, I did enjoy the ICC 5-mans, as they seemed to put a bit of challenge back into the game.
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 9:10AM Malagarr said

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@heerobya

"which means a very good player without the time I used to have (me)..."

Welcome to being a "casual" player. There are very few people who use the term "casual" to refer to unskilled these days. Most "casual" players are simply long time games who don't have the time to committ to games that they used to. Casual/hardcore has nothing at all to do with skill. Rather, it is about the amount of time you have to spend playing.

With that in mind, a better way to break down your suggested difficulty modes would probably be Easy, Normal and Hard. Afterall, we've all played with "hardcore" players who were about as alert as Forest Gump, and we've all played with "casual" players who could tank/heal/dps with the best of them. =)
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 9:38AM heerobya said

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@Malagarr

True. I've never thought Casual and Hardcore were measures of skill but rather commitment.

I don't have the time for hours of dailies and grinding mats for raid consumables anymore lol.

But I'm skilled enough to want to see and do decent content that isn't for the top 2% and isn't so piss easy it's not even worth doing.

Easy/Normal/Hard sounds good.
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Posted: Sep 26th 2011 10:12AM KDolo said

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@Malagarr

Forest Gump was actually rather perceptive.
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