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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:36PM Resurge said

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"Never Surrender allows Wardens a five-minute window wherein they cannot be defeated, and if their morale drops below 5%, they will be healed to 75% health and 50% power."


uhhh ..I'm guessing this doesn't mean what i think it means? Cause it reads like a 5 min immunity to death buff, which can't be right.

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:51PM aurickle said

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@Resurge
I guess it depends on whether it's a single proc or will proc every time health drops that low. I strongly suspect the latter, making it somewhat akin to a pally or priest bubble in WoW.

In Middle Earth terms, it would be like what happened when Boromir protected the halflings. His morale surged and he fought on but there was still only so much he could take.
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:51PM herculesmrb said

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@Resurge
It's probably a one-time use during that duration. A lot of games having something similar to this:
Healers cannot heal through spike damage, tank gets hit to 0% or close to it, death-prevention buff is used restoring tank to x%.

Generally once the buff has been used, if the tanks gets spiked to 0%, they die.

But yeah the way the wrote it seems like the tank cannot die during that 5minute duration :-D
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:56PM Knuxson said

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@Resurge It only can happen once. So, if the Warden activates it and during that 5 minutes he drops below 5% he will be healed. The buff then goes away and can't be used again for 10-15 minutes depending on when the Warden went below 5% after activating the buff. He also gets a debuff after being healed that does not allow him to use his masteries and decreases his self healing for a few minutes.
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 8:02PM ScottishViking said

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@Knuxson Sounds like a slightly weaker version of Last Stand.
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:54PM (Unverified) said

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Never Surrender to do the following: The skill is now activated by the Warden and will last for 5 minutes. During that 5 minutes the Warden cannot be defeated and if their morale drops below 5% of their maximum morale they will be healed for 75% of their maximum morale and 50% of their maximum power. They will also receive a debuff that will bar the usage of their mastery skills for the next 5 minutes and significantly reduce the efficacy of the HoT effect by removing the ticks from the HoT. (This only triggers if the Warden receives the heal.) The cooldown of this skill has been reduced from 30 minutes to 15 minutes.



Because the Warden will no longer be defeated, they will not lose aggro and should be able to continue the fight. Of course, they are drained because their efforts were channeled into survival and cannot use their masteries, but the time has been reduced and the chance to complete a battle without having a complete wipe should ease that concern somewhat.



Damn did wardens really need THAT MUCH HELP!?

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 7:28PM InfinitasX said

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@(Unverified) only after death. Wardens don't have a snap aggro button. We have threat leeches from the fellowship, but Conviction/Dance of war can take a while to get off and doesn't generate any additional threat.

There is a force attack legendary (31313) (Defiant challenge) but the animation is painfully long, and after the duration the player with the highest threat gets attacked again (which may not be you).

However, once a warden has max aggro, it is pretty damn hard to pull a mob off of one (Don't you love leeching threat?).
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 5:54PM aurickle said

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I enjoyed the warden enough to get him to 51 but I ultimately felt the dps was so bad it just wasn't fun killing things anymore. This sounds like it's going to improve that.

Unfortunately, it brings us to the second part of why I don't play a warden anymore: your abilities are even more "password protected" than playing a melee class in AoC. Unless you remember all the patterns to press, you don't get the result you're looking for. That's OK if it's all you play but it makes the class ridiculously hard to come back to after any kind of break.

And as a result, no matter how good they might have made the class now I still won't be picking it up again.

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 9:13PM TheClaw said

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@aurickle : haha, "password protected", great description!

I played a warden alt, only to somewhere in the low 20's though (he was my first "Undying" title). But then, having not played him for a while, I found it almost impossible to muster the enthusiasm to do so again, because I knew that I'd lost my finger-memory for those gambits.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:02AM (Unverified) said

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This was very much my problem with Warden, and the reason I dumped the class around level 37. Literally a few days playing something else and you find you have to refer to a spreadsheet to figure out how to play the class effectively again. It just wasn't fun for an altaholic.

Not the 'effectively'. Any fool can press random combos and get through most fights, but actually having the class do what you want was just too much like hard work.

And by the looks of it they've let the same developer loose on the Minstrel now :(
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 11:25AM Lenn said

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@(Unverified) It's really not as tough as you two make it out to be. I've stopped playing once for a month or so, and when I came back it didn't take all that much time to get back into the swing of all things warden.

The warden is a great class (and a one-man fellowship to boot). I'm a heavy altholic as well and I switch all the time depending on whatever I feel like playing the most on certain days.

Just level up your warden some more and get those gambits in your fingers and it'll be like riding a bike. You can not ride a bike for years, but when you hop on one, you instantly remember how to ride it.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 12:10PM aurickle said

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@Lenn
You may be able to start riding the bike again right away, but you're not going to be doing the tricks you might once have done.

If you're any good as a Warden you know that RGYRG will have a very different effect than RGRYR.

Sure, you can sit there and hit RRRRR to get a strong attack or GGGGG to get a defensive heal, but you're not going to be playing the class to anything approaching its potential. (And actually, that won't work very well anyway because those combos don't do anything more than RR or GG.)

See http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/lotro/ for all the different permutations and effects.

The power of the warden is his ability to start doing one thing and shift mid-gambit to a variant with a different effect. But to make that work well you need to know all the variants that are available to you at any moment along with what they do.

And this is ultimately the difference between Warden and other classes. With other classes you can mouse over the abilities to see what they do. You can then arrange them on your hotbar by function. You may not always need that DoT + to-hit buff but when you do need it you can just click its button. With the warden you have to remember the combo/password to get it.

So yeah, anyone can return to the Warden and remember "Green is heald/defense, Red is attack and Yellow is goad." With that info alone you can muddle through. But if you wish to perform anywhere close to the class potential you need either a cheat sheet or a photographic memory. ;)
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 3:36PM Lenn said

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@aurickle All I'm saying is getting on that bike is half the work right there. The tricks will come back to you once you try and start doing whee... oh, never mind.

Can we drop this metaphore now, please? I'm sorry I brought it up.

Look on the bright side: wardens have mercifully uncluttered skill bars. :)
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 6:10PM Silverangel said

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The Warden's gambit-building hurts my fingers from the key turnover, but otherwise it's really fun. A DPS improvement might make me play around with the Warden a little more. It's the only class I don't have at cap in LotRO.

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 6:27PM Seffrid said

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@Silverangel "The Warden's gambit-building hurts my fingers from the key turnover"

The mouse is your friend!
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 6:24PM DancingCow said

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"...and their rotation for doing so isn't exactly exciting..."

Just IMO, but there is no such thing as an exciting rotation. When optimal combat devolves to pressing buttons in a pre-ordained (for nearly every fight) order, you've reduced players to being organic robots.

Tres boring. Rotations are why I can't stand LOTRO and other games of the same ilk.

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 9:16PM TheClaw said

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@DancingCow : I found Guardian to be a fun class. You don't really have a rotation since it involves a number of skills that can only be used after a successful block or parry. And then those skills chain into 1-2 other skills. So you have to react to events. It also makes the class play quite differently against multiple opponents, since you'll be getting a lot more blocks and parries, and also using different reactive abilities, e.g. against a single opponent you'd do parry / bleed / bleed-even-more, but against multiples you'd do parry / whirlwind.
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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 11:32PM OutThere said

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@DancingCow

But of course this is what makes the Warden so fun to play. Who can remember gambits? I'm always surprised by what my guy does next cuz my fingers are flying over the keys and who knows what gambit I've cued up.

But I agree with you. Rotations are the reason so much gaming has become boring and, well, rote. Warden is actually a fairly flexible class to play, unlike Champion, for instance.

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Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 7:52PM Nerves said

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The big story here that people are missing is aggression. It is what appears to be a group-wide percentage based threat transfer with no cooldown. In a raid, that means you can extend your threat lead by using a single gambit every 20-30s, leaving all sorts of time to push downright silly avoidance numbers, or heal themselves - and from all accounts, the self-heals don't scale well with the overall damage increases in RoI.

Posted: Sep 22nd 2011 11:37PM OutThere said

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@Nerves

Tubine giveth and Turbine taketh away. This is another reason I'm shopping for a new MMO after 4+years and 2 lifetime accounts. You just can't trust Turbine not to take your favorite class and totally screw it up.
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