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Reader Comments (47)

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:11PM ChaosInc said

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"the unlimited tier one trial"
And still stands as the only and best part of the game worth playing. Went back to check things out a few months back, still no major changes warranting a full return. Once again, T1 was the most fun and the rest still seemed pieced together.

As far as WoH, they better hope and pray it works. Otherwise, they may as well shut the doors. The fact that it's made it 3 years is a miracle.

3 years, huh? So.... the rest of the capital cities are "still coming", right?

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:14PM Derekisazombie said

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@ChaosInc Man Warhammer Online is dying quiiiiick, They NEED free to play so they can get some revenue and a bigger team on this. No content has REALLY been added that will have any reason for you to jump back in.

However I'm beta testing WoH and it's amazing, It's actually a whole ton of fun. =]
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:20PM ChaosInc said

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@Derekisazombie

I'm hoping so. Like I said, the "even playing field" of T1 scenarios were the most fun (for me at least). Cross that with LoL? Should be interesting at least.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:26PM wufiavelli said

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The game was always a poorly pieced together Frankenstein. Lots of shiny ideas crappily implemented into a monstrosity. They could never add a third faction if they wanted to, unless they re did a lot of the maps.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:48PM BigAndShiny said

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Im worried SW:TOR will be like this.

Attack One: "Bioware puts out good games"
Answer: This isn't Bioware, this is a studio in Texas CALLED Bioware with different people. Bioware that you love is in Canada making ME3/DA3.

Attack Two: "Look how much they're investing"
Look how much EA, FUNCOM, TURBINE etc... invested.

Attack Three: "From what I've seen it's great."
They're only really showing a bit of PVP and Origin worlds.
Let me recall AoC. Wow, the starting region was amazing and the combat was fun and the voice acting great. "Won't Aoc be such a great game?", They said.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:50PM Deadalon said

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You always have to ask yourself what goes wrong when a game that had so much potential - and great IP goes this bad.

Lets ask us few questions here looking back...

Worst managed sub MMO on the market?
Most starved game in terms of finance considering the IP?
Worst dev team in the buisness atm ?
Least amount of content any game has released in 3 years ?
Most features removed from a MMO game in the past 5 years ?

The answer to all of those is yes. Does the game even have a development team atm? It seems like rest of them has gone to do a free to play Arena version that in reality has nothing to do with WAR.

Infact - the reality that the F2P Arena version is not even linked to the sub game pretty much says what is in store for WAR. It will be closed down very very soon.

Will WAR servers be online after another 3 years ? No - they wont. And sadly the main reason is that the game neglected the PVE content in terms of real quality and balance. Cause lets face it - after all ... WAR is not a triple A game it should have been. Its a mediocer quality PVP game filled with huge technical issues that were there from the start.

I gave WAR a chance. I played the game both PVE and PVP. Both of them were well under par from the start. The real issues was that Mythic and later Bioware and EA did only focus on the PVP content and ignored the PVE content that after all will always be a key part in any MMO game. You can not keep the sub numbers up with PVP alone cause the simple fact is that PVP always creates 50% of the playerbase as loosers and those will quit.

The only thing we can learn from WAR is that PVP only focused MMO can not maintain the numbers to keep a sub game going. The other way is F2P and then you are really buying power that will ruin the PVP RPG part.

So learn from it. Realise that you can not do so poor work and get away with it. Mythic has managed to ruin one of the big IPs of RPGs and tabletops cause of their poor development work and the horrible dississons they made after launch. And thats just a fact.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:58PM Deadalon said

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@Deadalon

And to answer the article. The only reason why WAR is still alive is because of SWTOR. Bioware and EA would not want to create the negative talk about taking yet another MMO of the market just before a launch of another IP MMO. Sadly it tells us alot about what SWTOR will have to go through. If it will not hold water at launch - EA will have no problem pulling the funds away. And looking at the record... EA will do that no matter what. Thats what they have done with every MMO game they have launched. Again... every one of them.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2011 5:30AM Kraven said

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@Deadalon I disagree in some aspects,
WAR has a UNIQUE PvP Systems, is great, fun but like any other game with only pvp (like shooters) if does'nt has a updates, or something new to do, you will quit after a few months.
The only new content in 3 years was Land of the Dead, and was GREAT when they implemented.
So they fail because: No developer team at all and No new content, plus unsolved bugs.
Any MMO can survive only with PvP like WAR if the change it for something new. And no like they doing now, changing the scenario rotation lol
You will play pve for 3 years only if they have the same intsnaces/dungeons? NO
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Posted: Sep 20th 2011 5:21PM bart2o said

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@Kraven
I'm not sure if we were playing the same game, and i'm not sure if anything changed atm (...not that it matters), but LoTD definitely wasn't great... not only this whole pve+pvp formula didnt work, travelling system made it impossible to pvp except of selected moments, the tomb instance was EXTREMELY bugged along with purging, i remember getting my run interrupted late at night for several minutes just to discover that there were no attackers... even this teleporting boss (2nd or 3rd, dont remember) enraged so fast doing the place was next to impossible with the underdog dps classes like the marauder... could probably find few more points if my memories were less dim.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:55PM Addfwyn said

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Several things I have to give WAR credit for, and it was a game I legitimately enjoyed. Plus any developer that decides to make any kind of mac client has a place in my heart as well

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:55PM NeverDeath said

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Several things went wrong with WAR that ultimately led to its self-inflicted demise - and don't let the fact that it's "still operating" fool you - to go from 700K players to a few thousand is indeed the demise of a game, however slow. I'll speak on matters as they existed at launch and for the first year, since that is really the time during which the game saw an inevitable dropoff from which it would not recover.

Firstly, class mechanics were totally botched in many cases. You had classes like Squig Herder and White Lion where their strength was their pets, but the pathing and pet AI were totally broken and so they were worthless. Or how about the idea that Bright Wizards and Sorceresses could build up their power the more they cast, blowing people to hell faster than anyone, and able to do it in large quantities due to powerful AoE, where a healer's minimal efforts could easily offset the "drawback" and where Guard from a tank could mitigate backlash damage? The obscene damage and critical increases combined with the fact it was a ranged class obliterated the balance of risk vs reward. Or how about the Shadow Warrior and the Vengeance mechanic, where their abiilties became extra-powerful when under the effects of Vengeance... Which had a 15 second duration and a couple minute cooldown, effectively making the class interesting and competitive 1/8th of the time. These mechanics and more reflected poor design on a systematic level.

While the first problem is major in a game that is all about competitive play, where the absolute most important thing is to make classes competitive so that players can enjoy the game how they want to play it and not be forced to pick one of the FOTM classes or be absolutely slaughtered because they picked a Magus, It was not the only problem with RvR, the game's heart. Crowd Control was also far too powerful. In a game where you may have a few people or a dozen people or maybe even two dozen people fighting, you can have a little crowd control. It's perfectly fair to have a 3 second stun on a 1 minute cooldown. However when the battles become epic in scale such as they did in open RvR, your crowd control abilities need to be scaled back, or you are going to have a lot of people being completely killed in the time it takes the crowd control effect of 1 of the enemy's 200 players using one of their short cooldowns on you. In such a setting, a 1 second stun can be detrimental. The immunity timers came later and while not a bad idea, less powerful crowd control would have been a better one.

My third point, something I touched on briefly in point number one, is Area of Effect damage was absolutely out of control for the first 2 years of the game. It was easily possible to see higher numbers on multiple targets using AoE spells than you could do to a single target using a single-target direct-damage spell. This was simply a design flaw, where an intelligent design would have had AoE abilities split the damage evenly between the number of enemies, or at the very least offered a lower intelligence and magic damage coefficient. The game was little more than bomb groups consisting of Bright Wizards and Sorceresses with a few tanks to guard the casters while the healers kept them alive, basically turning them into gods because of their aforementioned broken mechanics of Combustion/Dhar which were so easily offset by other abilities. People got tired of going into battle and being annihilated alongside 8 of their friends by some ridiculous AoE spells that could claim half of your health on a critical hit thanks again to said broken mechanics.

Another issue was the endgame system. The fact that Mythic had to change the endgame completely about 8 times just shows how inept their initial design was. Making the final stage of the game's ultimate PvP about killing a PvE boss unassisted by players from its faction was a terrible idea, and all of the ideas that followered were truly no better. When they finally decided to mix the PvE mobs with the players to create an interesting and dynamic endgame battle, it was not without its fatal flaws. Firstly they decided to make only a few players from each realm able to truly participate in the last stage. Another problem was that when they made this amendment and had the faction leaders choose a few champions from each realm, aside from the problem that it excluded most of the people who participated from actually getting to finish what they started, creating a potent and bitter anti-climax, by that point the campaign itself had become so watered down and uninteresting from all of the changes it had undergone, that it was no longer much fun to get to that epic final battle.

Keeps were flawed in that the game became a long time of beating on a door while taking oil damage and being blasted by casters and archer classes from above. Melee had to jump out, stab a guy, and jump back in before becoming dead for as long as the doors were up, which was pretty boring. Also, killing a door wasn't thrilling or fun at all, and as it comprised the majority of time spent during a siege, it made the siege itself similarly not fun. What would have been more interesting and more player-dependent and less frustrating for melee, and would have made the battles more tactical would have been to have made the door destructible, sure, but to add tunnels at the sides of the keep which would be reinforced with NPC troops and which would serve as chokepoints to defend against attackers. The tunnel systems could branch off in a few directions, thus making the defense of the keep itself a more coordinated effort than having everyone just jump on the one way in and crowd up and AoE spam/siege damage each other to pieces.while attacking a stupid door for 20 minutes. There are a million ways they could have designed keeps to be more fun, but they chose the path of least restraint, and made them boring and at times, frustrating.

Another issue I had with keep sieges were the siege weapons themselves. Siege pads, seriously? How much cooler would it have been to have had siege weapons which the player rides and controls, and has to ride from their war camp all the way to the enemy keep/objective, each with different strengths and weaknesses? Battering rams would be slow, powerful, and harder to destroy, while catapults would have the advantage of range and splash damage but be much more vulnerable to attack. Likewise, how cool would it be for players from the warcamp to have to purchase their own oil or ballistae, and have to roll them up the steps to the battlements and man them themselves, but to be able to move them when desired. I felt the siege weapons being an inventory item that you place on a designated pad was a boring design decision, and took away from their impact. It also would have led to the strategy of having to protect a caravan of siege weapons from enemy attack as they traveled. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Then there are the endless issues with PvE. I won't even touch this as between pathing issues, stupid and glitchy AI, broken PQs which were also tucked away in far corners instead of thrust into the player's face like RIFT's intelligent and superior design, a dearth of dungeons and much more... There's simply no point.

All in all I feel many of these situations compounded when placed together within the same game, making the game seem hopelessly inept and broken when really, it could have been fixed if it had been handled by intelligent management with a grasp on causality. It simply never was.



Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:06PM Deadalon said

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@NeverDeath

You right about all of these things. The real big issue that stands out for me is that Mythic allowed so much pure missuse of the game mecanics to happen without reacting. Be that AOE though doors. Scenarios beeing destroyed with a pull and AOE mecanic dominating for soo long. These are the testaments that Mythic will be remembered for. Allowing such blatant issues to dominate a game for months is not acceptable.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:31PM Titan1 said

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@NeverDeath
Good post.
In addition to your mechanics points I will always stick to my guns that the games largest flaw was it's world design.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 5:57PM Cristiano Cenizo said

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@NeverDeath Awesome post. As a Bright Wizard player that rolled at launch I had absolutely no idea what kind of power I had in my hands for the first couple weeks. I did not play any other class until much later because once I stepped into scenarios with my AoE build I was hooked. Personally, it was what put me off MOST about the game... I felt like I was cheating. I could kill or critically injure groups of 6+ people at a time, and, to be honest, the thrill didn't last much longer than a month. I hopped to other classes, realized how incredibly dull most of them were, then cancelled my sub.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:03PM Seldra said

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I played this game when it first came out and I really didn't have that many issues with the game, then again I went back to wow because of the expansion launch. Still I had a pretty good time when I played it, the pq was what kept it interesting for me.

If I wasn't still enjoying WoW at the time I probably would've stayed in WAR for a while.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:04PM (Unverified) said

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They were more concerned with launching before Wrath than launching a solid game.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:24PM Ehra said

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Even ignoring the issues of so much content being missing at release, if they had at least managed the game to be relatively bug free and decently balanced then it still could have done well enough. But the above comments about low level PvP being the most enjoyable are pretty spot on; the game just has too much unbalanced BS to deal with as you get higher.

I remembered back when I played there was one Scenario that everyone always got stuck in; the volcano/lava place. Order had the one dwarf class that could punt players extremely well, typically landing them into the lava where they'd die. This wouldn't have been a problem if Chaos' equivalent knockback typically didn't have enough height to launch people off of the ground if there was even a small bump behind them (Order didn't have this issue, there was plenty of height and distance). And there were lots of little issues like this throughout the game that added up to a mess. The game SHOULD have done well, but it didn't.


In the end, though, I can't hate the game or Mythic much. If I feel any animosity towards them then it's for abandoning Dark Age of Camelot twice (once for Imperator and again for WAR). The game could have been salvaged but it seemed like they stopped worrying about it for their newest projects. They seem to be putting some work into it now, but it's likely too late at this point.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 4:01PM Boardwalker said

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@Ehra

DAoC is hopping right now, so don't about it being "too late". Feel free to resubscribe and join the fun..
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 4:49PM Ehra said

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@Boardwalker

I actually have recently. The game has kept a very dedicated playerbase, but I can't see the game pulling in new players anymore. Maybe I'll wrong and the game will see some quality development and growth, I certainly hope so. But my belief is that they're taking the right approaches too late.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:37PM Tizmah said

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I remember being in Tier 3 during the first few months the game was out and upset how the game wasn't really that fun and just plain stupid at times. It got to the point where everything was so pointless I simply said, "They should have just made this game a lobby based pvp like that terrible game Fury." since that seemed to be where the focus was.

I find it so funny I said those words and now they are releasing Wrath of Heroes years later. Course, this iteration seems to throw the WAR lore out the window for a quick cash-in instead. But I don't know WAR all that well so maybe there is a reason they team up to fight others who team up as well.

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