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Reader Comments (7)

Posted: Sep 12th 2011 10:06PM Utakata said

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So really it's a Freemium?

Posted: Sep 12th 2011 10:13PM tooright said

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1. F2P
2. MMO RTS
3. with a cash shop



NEXT!

Posted: Sep 13th 2011 12:14AM real65rcncom said

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Cash shop. Doesn't bother me, I don't worry about them. Game doesn't appeal to me though after I've seen it for a bit now. :(

Too many other games I want to play before this.

Posted: Sep 13th 2011 2:40AM blackcat7k said

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"With each game that announces a free-to-play business model, the same concerns immediately arise in the minds of the game's fans. Will the game allow players to pay for convenience, or will it allow them to pay to win?"

How can Free to Play =/= Pay to Win?

Answer: It cannot do so. Because it is working at cross purposes. You want to make a game where people are on the same footing, but you want to sell advantages for cash... Okay. This can't happen. It doesn't work that way.

Convenience items = Pay to Win.

You don't want to spend time playing the game because your time is limited. Ok, why are you playing this product again? Why not just have it so the players can pay each other to lose? Much quicker and it gets to the heart of the matter.

Because if the convenience items are fluff people will forgo them and you'll have a bunch of freeloaders in your game and you'll be forced to bump (or ninja bump) the cash shop items.

I love this:

"GF: Many free-to-play games offer players the option of purchasing a monthly subscription and receiving all the new content that’s added. Is this something you’ll be doing with End of Nations? For players who don’t subscribe, how will they be limited? Will there be level caps or something similar?

DL: The optional subscription we are offering with End of Nations is just a way to offer the best value to our most committed players. End of Nations can be enjoyed entirely without the subscription, but subscribers will get significant value and convenience extras for their monthly fee. The optional subscription is all about value, but not about gameplay advantage. Players will not be level-capped or restricted while advancing and improving their units and armies."

Of course I never get to hear any specifics from a developer on this new epiphany of just what item they're going to sell that isn't cosmetic that gives a player a paid advantage.

I for one am getting sick of this. I like a lot of these games, but I'm not going to pay the developer piecemeal, subscription or otherwise when I know they're people running around in game not up to standard because they haven't dropped cash.

If its an MMO then you know people are going to group. Knowing point blank there are people that are less than standard because they're not paying isn't a good way to start off a player base.

However, we'll see. Maybe someone will make a magic game in which the company can make an paid advantage and still have the good conscience to call it a game and have it be true.

Posted: Sep 13th 2011 5:00AM Gaugamela said

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@blackcat7k

If you want an idea of well designed cash shops in free-to-play/freemium games download and explore a bit Dungeons and Dragon Online, LotRO and League of Legends.

In those games you have a multitude of free games with a well implemented cash shop that doesn't offer a competitive advantage. And LoL is a PvP game!!
They can for example put limitations on some units that you can deploy in your army and make it rotate like in LoL, limit the number of maps where you can play, among many other things to make it work.

I'm glad to know that they will have a freemium option though. If the game was exclusively free-to-play I wouldn't touch it.
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Posted: Sep 13th 2011 10:34AM blackcat7k said

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I have to disagree strongly with that. Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons online have one of the most complete pay-to-win systems I have ever seen:

Some Pay to Win goodies I've seen from those two:


Auction House Posting Slots
Currency Cap Increases
Inventory Bag Slots
Daily Quest Resets
Hit Point Upgrades
Additional Skills
Bank Vault Upgrades
Bind Stone Recharge Upgrade
Instant Travel
Increased Travel Speed
Tradeskill Recipes
Noteriety/Experience/Skill Accelerators

Yeah I'm sorry those items are pay to win. If you can shirk the gameplay progression/and limits because you can't be bothered with it. You're paying to win.

I will say that League of Legends does have a better one over all since they don't have any match affecting cash items that are cash only.

However, they still have convenience experience/credit boosters. Which asks the same old question: Why exactly are you playing this if you can't be bothered with grind the game has?

If I play 100 games for Runes\characters while you get skip that for cash then I have to wonder why the grind is there other than to waste my time. In a game like LoL having people skip going through matches would seem like a poor choice.

It certainly shows in some of the matches I've played where people are running around at level 30 that seem to display a marked lack of skill with their characters that you wouldn't expect from a level 30 player even if they're not well versed with the chosen character.

UPDATE

One of the few upcoming multiplayer games that I've seen that have a developer discussing in detail what they plan to do about their cash shop that doesn't have these "convenience" items:

The developers at Grinding Gear Games seem to have thought out which direction they should go with for Path of Exile: No advantages to gameplay. You can upgrade your experience through new animations, special looks etc. But nothing that impacts gameplay.

Path of Exile:

http://youtu.be/1juvhPizt3U

From the 4:30 mark onward.

I'll look forward to seeing them live up to this claim.


However, they still mention allowing more stash (I would assume this item storage) for cash, that I found issue with, but I would have to experience their system to see if it has a marked impact on gameplay (I don't see how it cannot. More Loot Slots = the ability to store more items without having to make choices about what to trash).

Posted: Sep 13th 2011 10:50AM Gaugamela said

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@blackcat7k

For me it seems that you are adamantly against any sort of free-to-play. Many of the things that you refer as pay to win aren't pay to win effectively.

Auction House Posting Slots
Currency Cap Increases
Inventory Bag Slots
Bank Vault Upgrades
Bind Stone Recharge Upgrade
Instant Travel
Increased Travel Speed
Tradeskill Recipes
Noteriety/Experience/Skill Accelerators
Daily Quest Resets

Those for me aren't pay to win. They are convenience items that allow you to bypass some grind or increase storage space.
Pay-to-win is when you can for example buy an item that is more powerful than what you can get by playing the game.

Stuff that lets you level faster, carry more stuff or cut down travel times aren't pay to win. They are time-savers for people that simply don't have time to spend grinding in a game even if they want to.

So considering your position I think you shouldn't even bother in looking at games that are free-to-play because they will always have something that will annoy you.
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