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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:15PM DahakaNG said

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Just do what I do and kick those losers to the curb. If people just want to be 'friends' of your guild or what not, then that is what they stay - 'friends'.

This means they do not raid (and therefore don't piss off the general populaces of your guild) . I find the people who have this problem in their guilds can follow the source to one major issue - weak leadership.

If a guild leader can learn to be the 'bad guy' once in awhile, then in the long term they will fail.

JUST SAY NO TO MR. WIGGLY's!

~ Dahaka
Host of 'Nothing but TOR'

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:26PM ShivanSwordsman said

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@DahakaNG

That's... completely opposite of the social aspect of what Guilds are supposed to be. Then again, some take these video games way too damn seriously, and you appear to be one of those folks.

The sad thing is, you're probably right, as the companies are working hard to write the games in your terms: Making encounters harder, loot fewer drops, and making it so you can only run a certain instance so many times a day/week.
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Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:52PM DahakaNG said

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@ShivanSwordsman you realize you are missing the point of what the social aspect of the guild is - A group of LIKE MINDED people banding together to play and take on challenges.

A Mr. Wiggley's obviously isn't in that 'like minded' core. As a leader stand point if having that person in your group or raid pisses off others. ..then well it's your job to get rid of him.

It all has nothing to do with playing the game too seriously, ..which btw I love that excuse by casual terms. Even a more social or family guilds will not put up with someone that the majority does not like to play with.

At the end of your post you basically loose the point completely and start complaining about the difficulty of games, ....I can only assume you are a WoW player. Just so you know, ...WoW is easier now then it was 7 years ago.

~ Dahaka
Host of 'Nothing but TOR'
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Posted: Sep 8th 2011 10:03PM DevilSei said

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@ShivanSwordsman

Ignore the pathetic troll with an inflated sense of ego with his self-advertising posts.

He couldn't see over his own little show to recognize the post wasn't dealing with JUST hardcore raiding guilds, and was offering general suggestions on to handle a player who, while a nice guy all around and the like, might not be the best at raiding.
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Posted: Sep 8th 2011 11:20PM sortius said

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@ShivanSwordsman To be honest, one person's enjoyment can't overrule the guild's.

Having run guilds/clans for nigh on a decade, I can assure you that dismissing it as "taking the game too seriously" is just total BS. Everyone wants to get a win, everyone wants to beat a boss. So you've got one person stopping that, taking everyone else's enjoyment of the game away, and you're supposed to be ok with that?

Not a chance. I've actually had totally unskilled groups I've lead in raids do excellent. All they did was listen to the raid leader. It's not that hard. Then I've had massively experienced "Mr Wiggly" types who refuse to do what they need to do.

If you want to be ultra casual and not learn the game/your character, don't raid, it's pretty simple. Doesn't mean I won't be social with the person, just means they can't expect to have it both ways.

The whole point of a raid is to learn a fight, overcome seemingly impossible odds, and get that massive adrenaline rush when you're standing over the corpse of a boss. It's not about carrying someone because they're married/friends/siblings of the guild leader/raid leader/some helpful member, it's about working together, learning each other's strengths and weaknesses.
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 6:10AM eLdritchZ said

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@ShivanSwordsman See I would have agreed with you if not for the second part of your post...

I am the leader of what I consider a hardcore guild myself, meaning I play to achieve and I expect my members to share that attitude.... that being said Jobs and School/Studies have priority.... As long as the game is an important hobby to you, you're fine ;)

It is my opinion that only very few people are hopeless noobs... very, very few... most people are just newbies, as in, they really don't know any better YET. So the credo is - teach them. If they are willing to listen and learn and want to improve, they have the right attitude and are valuable guild members...

It's the ones that don't want to improve because it's "just a game" that I don't want in my guild ;) because to me, Snakes and Ladders is just a game, Chess is just a game... Video Games and especially MMOs are a hobby that I do take seriously. Just like I take my Warmachine tournaments seriously ;)
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 12:51PM TexRob said

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@DahakaNG Why are you guys down voting this guy just because he plays for different reasons than you? How narrow minded can you be to not appreciate that some people play for casual reasons, friends, and some people play to achieve. Haven't you heard of the Bartle test?

Down voting valid posts because they differ in your opinion is the most ignorant thing you can do on a blog.
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Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:33PM (Unverified) said

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There's no need to make everything so binary: There are plenty of good, family guilds out there who also pursue challenging group content.

The real secret is that at any level of play, you have to know how to manage human beings. The basics of management are largely consistent irrespective of the endeavor: Criticise actions, not people; never criticise in front of others, and establish clear expectations while holding people accountable.

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:37PM Apakal said

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I've seen many guilds make the same mistakes or same set of mistakes over and over again on a single boss because no one has the balls to step up, take charge, and point out the problems.

That doesn't mean you need to be a dick about it, but when you're raiding with 24 other people, unless your a top 10 or top 100 guild, its a bit unrealistic to expect everyone to show up at the same level of preparedness. Very often, mistakes are just that; honest mistakes. Either a player doesn't know to shift to an add, or doesn't know when to spread out for a particular phase or vice versa, etc. etc.

I've seen this happen. And I've seen it happen over and over again because the GM and Raid Leader don't step up and point out mistakes/make sure everyone is on the same page.

There's a certain level of accountability expected from each player and a certain level of leadership expected from the management. If one or both of those are lacking, problems are going to persist.

Its best just to say, "Hey Apakal (my old toon name), next time, in the third phase, make sure to spread out so you don't kill 10 other people." Problem solved. Execution isn't the hard part.

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 7:48PM Lateris said

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I really hate raiding.

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 11:40PM Graill440 said

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@Lateris

+1
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 5:59AM FrostPaw said

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@Lateris

+2
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 8:45AM Borick said

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@Lateris +3
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 11:41AM Vandal said

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@Lateris +4
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 12:41PM StClair said

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@Lateris
+5
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 1:44PM Azules said

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@Lateris +6 It's a bloody awful way to spend your time, and devs need to find better ways to entertain players. The whole practice breeds assholes and overzealous guilds, The sooner they find something new, the better.
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Posted: Sep 9th 2011 4:09PM Keeop said

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@Lateris + Infinity
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Posted: Sep 8th 2011 8:12PM hereafter said

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Another option is to actually teach him how to play properly. If he's shooting off abilities that kill everyone or otherwise ruin the raid, tell him to take them off his bar or whatever. If he wants to play, he probably wants to succeed, so maybe take one night and make it a sort of training night. Some people let their pride get in the way and can be hard to teach, but it's worth a shot before booting or relegating him to the kiddie table.

I've never been much for guilds or raiding, but I've run into this sort of thing in other areas of life.

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 10:12PM DahakaNG said

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so much hate because I'm assumed a raider because I don't take the 'lets all be friends point of view'

I've seen the Mr. Wiggley's affect hardcore and social - casual guilds. Ultimately as a leader WHEN HE STARTS TO AFFECT THE MEMBERS OF YOUR GUILD HE HAS TO GO.

This is somehow a point people don't understand.

Posted: Sep 8th 2011 10:35PM Apakal said

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@DahakaNG

No. Put simply, you're wrong. This isn't like training a helicopter pilot, military sniper, or an astronaut. Anyone can be molded into the raider YOU want them to be, so long as you are willing to put forth the minimal time and slight effort to throw them a few tips.

For starters, if you're in any sort of respectable guild, you're going to have some sort of trial period, application, etc. etc. If you can't screen out the people who don't perform at your standards, you've already failed and your guild is laughable.

If you were talking about a guild member's disruptive social behavior, I would side with you. I have very low tolerance for racism, sexism, etc. etc. That shit doesn't fly. But we're not talking about that. Like I said, it doesn't take a lot of effort to help people become better players. A link to a forum and few simple tips is usually more than enough. It even has a chance of giving yourself a good name and attracting more players to your guild.

Its your kind of attitude that is largely why MMO communities have such a shitty rep. People who actually care are few and far between. Guilds anymore are no more than a collection of self-minded individuals out for personal progression. The only reason their in a guild is because its the most convenient way to get what they want; the welfare of the guild be damned. That's selfish, sad, and doesn't fair well for the future generation of MMOs ever hoping to have some kind of real community.
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