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Reader Comments (197)

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 2:59PM DeadlyAccurate said

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@real65rcncom They could try making better games than the competition instead of trying to turn their existing customers into open wallets.

And I think both are equally insane. Paying $200 and finding out that all that does is allow my password to keep working would make me quite upset.

Increased competition means they need to work harder to attract customers and make money. But nickel-and-diming your customer is a short term solution. It's the "grab what you can from them before they wise up" approach.
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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:12PM (Unverified) said

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@real65rcncom

How do you know? Do you work for one of the Gaming company? Accounting/Finance Department? The point of the Articles is that there isn't a way for consumer to know and Company won't reveal it.

How do you know it's Extra? So Instead of Creating something for the Subscription, the programmer/Artist is spending time creating "Extra". So that's not really extra considering the Finite amount of time each employee has. Opportunity Cost here. Between Creating something that is part of Subs and not get pay extra or Creating something that you can charge $5 more for, what would the company do?

How do you explain other Subs Games that is still running?

These greedy MMO companies have already convinced you and you're their Target audience then. It's good for them and you. Good luck.
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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:15PM chum said

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@DeadlyAccurate

I've noticed that among the supporters of sub+cs there seems to be a subset that use the diversion, "Don't hate me because I have more disposable income/a better job/less time to game than you." I think it completely misses the point why people are against the business model and is really just silly since I would guess that the vast majority of us are busy people who could "afford" the few dollars extra if we felt it was worthy.
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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 11:55PM Seldra said

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@chum Don't mistake the fact that I'm a consumer of CS products means I'm defending the business practice. But lets face facts; this isn't going away, it's very profitable, and there's more people buying items out of it than all the people who are outraged in regards to this practice. I'm just being realistic with the situation.

If a company decides to change the model from sub+cs hey awesome I saved myself a 1.50. In the end I'm just the nameless gal that's buying herself a digital sweater for her avatar.
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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:04PM Digestivo said

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"The point, though, is that for some gamers it is required."

Using what "some gamers" require would let you make an unlimited amount of points, in any subject and in any possible direction, you feel me? let me show you with a true example:

For some gamers, shopping is an entertainment per se. The cash shop becomes then an enhancer of their gaming experience rather than a source of complements for their gaming adventure. Just like in real world.

Call me crazy, but I for one am more than disposed to support the game I like with additional inversions other than my subscription, as long as the Cash-shop doesn't become an intrusive element and the game worth my monies.


Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:07PM SocksForYou said

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Funcom and other developers should concentrate on making better games that can actually sustain a subscription model before adding on the MTs. All of these potential revenue streams won't mean a thing if TSW is yet another content-lite rushjob.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:35PM Jorev said

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You know why developers get away with this crap?
Because players let them.
Just say no to cash shop games.
It's really easy to give up MMOs altogether until you find a fair flat subscription revenue model.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 3:38PM Nerves said

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@Jorev
Even just refusing to use the store is a step forward. IF there's no revenue, then they certainly won't maintain a store.
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Posted: Aug 31st 2011 4:10PM Jorev said

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@Nerves

The problem is that there is a breed of gamer that likes the pay to win model, as they have no qualms about cheating and not earning their way or respecting the virtual boundaries of a virtual world.
You are supporting the game and the cash shop revenue system when you play alongside them and populate the virtual world, even if you yourself do not use the cash shop.
A successful MMO requires a healthy population, and the players who pay to win need other players who don't use the cash shop in order for their purchasing power to assign them the advantage they seek. You are fulfilling that role by participating.
Just say no to cash shop games.
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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 4:50PM Sente said

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If anything I would hazard a guess that content is cheaper than before. The reason for that is that nowadays the content creation tools are likely better than they were for the games in the old days.
Also, creation of art assets and similar are more likely to have been outsourced to low-cost countries than before.

Increased costs may have occurred though for creating those tools in the first place, plus also perhaps in general put more effort into testing things and see that they work - more "polish". (Not true for every game though)
Also improvements to increase availability, scalability and performance would cost more - but most of this would be invisible to the player, or at least not apparent.

I am not against the payment model of subscription+cash shop in general, but such a title would have a harder time keeping me as a player than a game that allows for some gameplay without a subscription fee.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 5:13PM malakhi70 said

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If you disagree with it; does that mean you will cancel your AOC sub :-)

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 5:55PM FrostPaw said

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The real pain is that there are always plenty of people who care more about having it now then earning it so they would rather do more overtime at work to buy it then spend more time in game earning it by playing the game.

It's crazy logic to be happier looking like you play a game but actually would rather just go to work to afford that look.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 6:01PM smartstep said

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Yeah that;s sad state of affairs.

I have nothing against spending more though but by higher SUBSCRIPTION. I really have nothing against paying f.e. 20$ / month if there are no item shop. 15$ is already for some time , so I would have nothing against a raise.

I have something against spending 15$ + 5$ in item shop , becasuse it is not only about freaking money.
Item Shop are bad because they are item shops. Peroid.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 6:21PM (Unverified) said

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@Celtar

Lol I remember those things. i couldn't afford it then. and that's why they are not really around anymore. I thought they were up there with 976 and 900 numbers.

In '90s, i would play MUD or MUSH for free. I consider Meridian59 and UO as the Real start of MMORPG.

we'll see where MMORPG evole to. If they becomes Cash Shop+Subs and Nickle and Dime everything then, it's a Future w/o me and many of the players I know.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 7:14PM Valkesh said

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You sir speak only truth, and are officially my favorite writer on here right now. I've read too many posts that leave me aghast as to how people can defend this crap, and it's nice to see someone else mention it.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 7:57PM Laephis said

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Great Soapbox post. "Vanity" items that you can't obtain by playing the game have become a scourge on the genre. I wish more people would take a stand against this growing trend.

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 8:03PM Graill440 said

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There is a huge difference between Freemium, or microtransaction payment models or pay as you go.

The industry has lost its identity due to the greed of its own suits. They spin whatever tagline .....suits them, Trying to pull in the unwary, intentionally, this is the problem, intentional fraud and lawyers are working cases as we speak.

You will see in the next year slow wording changes as the big publishers and developers dig thmselves out of the wording holes they have dug, you're already seeing them now in the form of Freemium from F2P, however this will also change when disclosure becomes mandatory.

The article was fine, and the view appreciated, my outlook is that choice is a right above all other things....as long as that choice is tempered. Not to many devs have common sense when it comes to the reality of what exactly a gamer wants, instead calling them ingrates, unnpreciative and entitled. profit above all else, this is why the industry does not utilize SME's.

We pay them to make games and right now they are doing a poor job in holding our best interests at heart, they look first to their own and then shoe horn the demographic that best .......suits them.

These devs could make games that please nearly all, but they wont because of the profit margin and workload. It is far easier to advertise a game is free, get folks to try it, get those they can hooked and then have them pay more than they would with a regular sub, an underhanded tactic that gamers let happen because of lack of knowledge and the will to make them stop it.

I have no problem if agame is free to play, but it had better be free to play, no restrictions, no loss of content, but then, how do they make money? They dont. Thats why F2P doesnt exist, like any pusher spin is the advertisement of choice, not the truth. On the other hand having a solid sub model with a cash shop is a choice, as long as the choice of the subscriber is even with that of the cash shop buyer. They should be even.

But this smacks of the argument about raiders and non raiders doesnt it? The devs can fix this, easily but the thing that prevents it is profits, they are out to make money and as i have pointed out, you dont matter to them unless your paying them and the demographics they build for are selected with lots of research.

If the devs want premium money models then make servers that cater to those that want to spend the extra cash for whatever reason. Gamers that do not want to spend the cash have zero reason to whine or bitch as they can stay on their servers. This has been discussed by devs numerous times but they are simply to scared to try it. its funny, they will call a title free to play when it isnt and yet they wont do the one thing they know will bring in cash honestly...a catch 26?

The solution. Stop buying the games until the devs do what gamers want, this is the tough thing for some. Contact your officials, it does work.

In the end you can choose to watch your own lane and feel slighted because so an so is buying things from a cash shop in the game you happen to like and you cant afford it, or you can take action and like the auto industry, force these clowns to make games for gamers again and not their profit margins. (Grin)

The choice as always is yours. A saying from quite a few years back is still relevent in this industry, "To whom you give your money is whom you give your power".

Posted: Aug 30th 2011 8:40PM DeadlyAccurate said

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@Graill440 "Contact your officials, it does work."

Do you mean the developers? Or do you mean government officials? Because there's nothing illegal in offering an item shop and a subscription (nor should there be).

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Posted: Aug 30th 2011 11:59PM Bhima said

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F it all people, lets just buy Torchlight 2 and be done with it!

Posted: Aug 31st 2011 1:26AM DarthDan said

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"...trusting a company is foolish" Wiser words were never said.

I can't agree more with your conclusions on how inferior the current MMOs are compared to their predecessors, and yet they want us to pay more for them. That's more or less the reason I'm no longer playing. MMOs just aren't what they used to be, and double dipping with subs and cash shops doesn't help.

And having company credits instead of direct monetary value in these cash shops should be illegal.

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