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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:11PM Carolina said

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I agree with your second pet theory. I guess we are used to expect more and not used to faster and smaller expansions and upgrades.

NDA just got lifted... I assume you wrote this before that happened? Would your theories and ideas here written change if now you can talk about details that were not allowed to be talked about with the NDA?

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:17PM Nerves said

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I'm on board with a more steady release schedule, but shipping an expansion without instances... just silly. Nobody expected that the expansion would be releasing in September, most estimates October or November. I would have delayed it. I guess, though, if the landscape stuff is done then why not right?

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:39PM jealouspirate said

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@Nerves

To don my tinfoil hat a moment, it looks like SWTOR could see a Novemeber release. Maybe Turbine decided to release RoI earlier than intended and add in the instances later rather than going head-to-head with SWTOR.

Who knows. I'm excited for RoI regardless.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:18PM Rewrando5 said

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I think the second theory is correct. We have been getting frequent updates, frequent skirmishes and instances, and there is always a lot of hype right before they are released. I think the "expansion" part is that we are getting more levels. This has not changed since Moria and Mirkwood. They gave us exactly as much as we need for the next few months. People will level to 75, try the new raid, do some level-cap scaled instances to see what the challenge modes are and the new gear looks like. Some players will PvMP with the new f2p players able to be Reavers for free and other classes for TP. Then right as they get bored with that, the new instances will hit and it will be back to the learning curve until the next update. I think it fits perfectly

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:20PM Angn said

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Big, bad expansions are over for LOTRO. Iterative releases are in. This is the sort of flexibility that the F2P model affords them. Their player base is no longer an exclusive lock-in they constantly have to appease. Their customers can come-and-go-and-come-back easily. Player churn becomes cyclic rather than terminal.

They obviously retain the option to release new products in monumental spikes, but right now they're going through the same economic difficulties plaguing the rest of us here in Amerika.

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:21PM stephen09181981 said

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i agree with this no real end game instances a raid that should of been deliver months ago that was promised then delayed and all we get is a new crafting tier and stupid solo content which i'm very sick of how much solo content they put into this game we need more group content

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 3:56PM jslim419 said

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@stephen09181981

you know you can do the solo content... while in a group. right?
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:23PM stephen09181981 said

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well the thing is when you release a xpac without a expansion with swtor right around the corner your asking for trouble

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:26PM tororosso said

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yeah i agree, sucks but this is indeed the hard reality that most LOTRO veterans will have come to face sooner rather than later. That is RoI very very late release(2 yrs late in terms of content value ratio to subscribers) and not help with quality. Sucks? yepp. U invest all your $ and more importnatly your time to turbine all these years. as a return of investment turbine spent all effort on f2p overhall instead of core LOTRO hardcore players. Well this practice has been very common to most prime MMOs that has turned in to F2p, LOTRO isnt alone in neglecting their subscribers... but they are FAR and BEYOND leading them all. what a shame to be a LOTRO subs...almost as bad as LOTRO's f2pers being force to grind for standard content.

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:36PM SwarlesBarkley said

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I am just glad to see that I was not the only one who had issues with this. While I might be taking it a little different than some, I still stand by my choice. Now that the NDA has been lifted I can even say it louder. I was in beta. I am not only let down by the lack of instances but also by :

1. The size of the new regions. Its truly is not 3 Wonderful big regions.. Its one nice large region with a landmass, narrow bridge of a map connecting to Isengard. The outside of Isengard is not that big of a map and is more akin to the outskirts of BG. Would you call BG and inside the walls of BG an entire map for the sake of a bullet on a pre-order? I think not.

2. The lack of a new system. As the author mentioned I was hoping for some kind of new system that would maybe be shuffled in and held out hope we would see one. Alas there is nothing.

3. MP - I knew there would be no new area before I pre-ordered, however I hoped for more than just a few fluff things. In fact I guessed what they would be doing before I even played beta. They revamped the character selection screen for MP, put in some menial changes to the classes, did nothing about the things that are wrong with balance, actually created more balance issues.

4. This.... Is..... The... Biggest... Reason and what led me to cancel my subscription after 3 years, and decided not to even play when RoI goes live...

SPOILERS!!!!!!











The Epic book is a HUGE let down....

There I said it... Some will disagree.. Some in beta even like it. And its not like I do not like all of it.. But overall it is extremely dull. There are too many filler quests... It says 30 chapters and I think that is a mistake to have them all lumped into one book, but it goes deeper than that... The quests are so freakin boring... Its terrible... You wind up doing more like 50 quests to finish the books because in one chapter you have to complete 10 quests for the tribes people before you can go on to the next chapter.. Then something cool does happen where you (Again Spoilers do not read if you dont want to know what happens) end up a prisoner in Isengard... This was a nice twist, seems cool right? Thats before you have to do more mundane boring quests inside the lower depths of Isengard.. You also get to keep all of your gear including your nice shiny weapon... How dumb is that? Someone asked about this in the forums and the devs response was that they do not see you as a threat so they allow you to walk about freely from dungeon to surface with this nice awesome glowing 1st age weapon and super cool armour you got from defeating a frickin LT of BG!!!! Seriously?!?! The book which is one of my favorite things about Lotro is garbage and that was the final nail... I have never hated on Turbine or the game before, but this "Expansion" has done it for me...

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:38PM Kyzgar said

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We are seeing a lot coming out of Turbine, and there are a lot of little things coming in this expansion. So many little things that it does really add up to a lot. But I completely agree that the lack of a new system is a bit disappointing. My guess is that the next big system introduction will be mounted combat, which we'll have to wait until the Rohan expansion for.

I also have to agree that not including anything for the lower-level players puts this one on a lower par. A hobby or two (butterfly catching, golf?) would've been well received, as well as filling in some of the dead-space in the north even (forochel-angmar, forochel-ered luin, ered luin-shire).

Lots of missed opportunities there, but the 10 level increase in cap, new/updated skills, and higher virtue cap give us something we really needed: character advancement. Mirkwood, though I'd classify it as a very good expansion, didn't have that. We gained more advancement opportunities for our legendary weapons and our new skirmish soldiers, but our own characters didn't get much. So I'm looking forward to that.

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:43PM Lenn said

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I wouldn't mind a regular stream of expansions in the vein of Mirkwood and Isengard, but if they were to do it that way, Turbine really needs to reconsider their pricing plans. Asking expansion prices for what really amounts to a slightly larger than usual FREE content update (like we used to get with Evendim and Forochel) does feel a bit like milking the subscriber base for every penny.

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 2:49PM gildhur said

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"A new book"? I thought there were three.

"We're already seeing faster and more considerable updates than we were..." Sorry, but not at all. That is only true if your historical perspective is limited to 2010, which was almost completely devoid of content updates until F2P. However, the "more frequent updates" promise by Paiz has simply not turned into reality (http://my.lotro.com/user-891/2011/05/20/updated-release-schedule/). If they truly doubled or tripled their revenues with F2P, as this site and others reported, then they're either diverting it to unknown resources or wasting it entirely. From 2007 to 2009 we got major book releases every 2-4 months, almost always with either a full new zone or instance cluster. The 2010 to 2011 roster has instead turned into one new zone a year, usually released in a paid expansion, one new instance cluster in a major free update, and some low level crumbs sprinkled in between.

As to Rise of Isengard itself, from what I've seen on the newly NDA-freed sources, it's not even worthy of the name "expansion". Yes, it's a large zone. Yes, it's got a new raid (one room, one boss). Yes, it's got class revamps. Guess what? So did Book 9 and Evendim (+Helegrod). So did Book 13 and Forochel (+Delving of Fror). And Book 13 added a new Creep class!
The "three huge zones" that were much advertised have turned out to be one huge zone with two of the outlying sections lopped off into their own maps in a vain attempt to match the marketing. That doesn't make it so.
The Draigoch raid was supposed to be out in an "anniversary update" in April. Now it's coming out in September as a major marquee feature. What would be the major feature if it had been released earlier as promised? Not having a new instance cluster in a paid expansion is simply unacceptable. There aren't even any new skirmishes. Draigoch is literally the only new group content in a $30 expansion.
And now we hear by inference that if you don't pay cash for RoI and instead wait to purchase it with TP (like we were told last and this year that we would be able to do), that you'll also have to purchase the eventual Update 5 instances. They're going to charge separately for a major expected feature of an expansion that they couldn't finish in time? When it's been the policy for over a year that all non-expansion updates would be free to VIPs? Excuse me? That's even more unacceptable than not including them with the xpac in the first place.
And don't even get me started on the mythical PvMP zone that's STILL listed in the RoI announcement...

Look. I'm looking forward to the expansion for several reasons. I'll have fun with the content that's there. I have a dozen characters on four servers. I'll play, and I'll enjoy it. But Turbine can and should do better than this.

Posted: Aug 26th 2011 3:01PM Ehra said

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@gildhur

"And now we hear by inference that if you don't pay cash for RoI and instead wait to purchase it with TP (like we were told last and this year that we would be able to do), that you'll also have to purchase the eventual Update 5 instances. They're going to charge separately for a major expected feature of an expansion that they couldn't finish in time? When it's been the policy for over a year that all non-expansion updates would be free to VIPs? "

This is the biggest issue I have with the expansion.

I mean, when it comes right down to it, I really don't have any room to complain since I've got a lifetime founder's account. I've been pretty much playing the game for free for awhile and I've got almost 10,000 TP saved up from my founders' bonuses and free VIP sub. I can't really complain about this setup when I'm still going to be able to enjoy the entire thing without paying a single cent; I especially can't compare it negatively to Moria or Mirkwood which I DID have to pay money.

But I can understand why this would be very upsetting for VIPs that don't have a lifetime account.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 3:02PM SwarlesBarkley said

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@gildhur

My hat off to you sir. I do not have near as many forum posts as you, but over the years I think you and I have pretty much hung in there and had similar feelings. I never was one to bad mouth Turbine or their mistakes even when some of those mistakes were so obvious, but this time I could not hold my tongue. Some on the forums doubted me, and it was hard not being able to tell them more specific details about beta because of the NDA, but now the cats out of the bag and I think Turbine will suffer some for this. I by no means want this to be the end of Lotro, but the greed has gone too far and they need to realize and admit they mucked up....
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 4:17PM Softserve said

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@Ehra They've already stated those new instance clusters will be free to anyone that buys ROI now or in the future.

From the forums:

" We are currently preparing five new instances for release post Isengard.

Rise of Isengard will be released on September 27 along with a 24 Player raid. There will be 3 Three player, 1 Six player and 1 Twelve player instance released in Update 5, the first update after the release of Rise of Isengard. These instances will be free to any player who has pre-purchased the Rise of Isengard expansion or who purchases after launch via the Turbine Web Store."

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?415426-Five-New-Instances-in-Update-5

So I guess you can infer what you like, I've never been getting that feeling. And now we know it's not true.

The update is apparently scheduled before the end of the year too.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 4:19PM Softserve said

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@Softserve This was meant to be a reply to the initial post, not a reply to a reply. Sorry!
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 6:14PM JaySpeed said

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@gildhur

How I'm reading the 5 new instances in update 5 is, it'll be free for VIP's but F2Pers will need to buy RoI with cash to get the instance cluster for free. I don't see them charging VIP's for a raid cluster. They've never done that so why start now especially with the bad press RoI is getting at the moment. I could be wrong but I don't see that happening.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 8:28PM Ehra said

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@Softserve

He was talking specifically about people who buy the expansion through the ingame Turbine Store, which was clarified by a Turbine rep in that thread that they will not be getting the later instances for free with the expansion.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2011 10:04AM shipwreck said

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@gildhur

Respect!

For my part I would see a more regular release schedule of new zones without instance clusters or even a large mess of quest hubs. I just like exploring.

But Turbine has consistently played to the middle, trying to appease casual types like me, group players and raiders, and solo min maxers. This barely appeases the latter.

I guess I just don't get it; what is keeping them from producing?
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