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Reader Comments (25)

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:15PM Eamil said

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Here I thought we were done making fun of that picture.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:52PM Eliot Lefebvre said

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@Eamil

I've actually got a bunch of these. That one just came out the best.
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 7:00PM Eamil said

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@Eliot Lefebvre

Yeah. Ignore me, I'm just grumpy today. ;)
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:22PM Irem said

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Can't speak for anyone else, but I miss the jump function if it's not there because freedom of movement is hugely important to me in MMOs. I didn't miss it until I'd had it in WoW, but once I got used to being able to pull off a lot of stylish-looking, thrilling leaps, it became a big part of the fun of the game for me. As part of the all-important "I want to stand around nonchalantly in high places and then jump off of them like a boss" demographic, I'm just as confused by arguments -against- jumping (or a total lack of desire for it) as the people making them probably are about my desire to careen around the environment like a ping-pong ball.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:37PM Fakeassname said

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@Irem

point and click games typically have baked environment boundaries, so even with a jump function it's not like you can hop off a cliff.

like in Guild Wars, what good would jumping do in that game?
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:55PM Irem said

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@Fakeassname
I've wished I could jump in GW for a long time, even with the boundaries in. Just being able to do things like hop down stairs and whatnot would do a lot for my visual engagement with the game. The environments are gorgeous but there's not a lot of variety in how my character moves, and I found it hard to play for long periods of time before I rolled a Ritualist--the casting animations are dynamic enough that I don't get tired of watching them.
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:58PM Eamil said

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@Fakeassname

They could at least limit the "baked environment boundaries" to actual cliffs or places you'd get stuck if you fell in. As I recall, at least one of GW2's environment artists has gone on record saying that NOT having to worry about baked environment boundaries gives their team a lot more freedom.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 5:10AM pcgneurotic said

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@Fakeassname

There was a time in early WoW when you could reach inaccessible and off-limits areas (the DM 'airport', for example) by jumping, walking slowly and so on.

Jumping also helps scale ledges and bits of scenery that you otherwise couldn't solely walk or run up. I guess it all depends on the game though.
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:35PM Fakeassname said

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any thoughts about splitting Massively into two sites?

one for traditional MMOs and one for F2P/browser/DOTA coverage?

continuing to mash the two demographics together is just causing problems in my eyes. things were fine when the moderation was vapor thin around here, and it was like one big MMO fanboy moshpit where by posting you were pretty much consenting to be trolled. but now that you want us to play nice the insults are getting more hurtful. Trolls will be Trolls and telling them to "be nice" has never worked, however the people who aren't trolls have now had their armaments for self defense restricted as they try to abide by the rules.

it's kinda like you tossed out a "no ganking" rule in a PVP game ...

traditional MMO hardliners and F2P hardliners are like cats and dogs, we will never get along so confining both demographics to the same site is what I think is the real root of the problem.

I'm not talking about starting an entirely new site to run side by side with massively (like with it's own staff and what not), just splitting the coverage between two pages ("Massively" & "Microly" if I could suggest names) while having the same writers cover both topics like they have been.

content wouldn't really take that much of a hit because the two sites would still put out the same level of combined content as the current single site (you could possibly get even more content because your writers would then not have to worry about trying to write bipartisan articles) and reader clashes would go down as the traditionalists would have their "pure" coverage of "REAL" MMOs back while the F2P types would be less inclined to run around starting "Too bad it's not F2P, looks like it could be fun if it was .." flame wars.

just a thought ... (and having two sites to flip between isn't really that much trouble if you like reading about both types of MMOs).

P.S. Also, think of the extra page views you guys would get from having two sites, hard to argue with extra add money.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 7:16PM Fakeassname said

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@(Unverified)

I'm not the one with a problem, I personally would be one of the types that would jump back and forth between both sites. I prefer F2P but I like reading about all MMOs (well ... not all, but then I choose to not visit WoW insider), having two sites would undermine the whole justification people like to site about articles from an opposing product "culuttering" up coverage about "good" games.

and yes "really" on the "no ganking rule"

you ever played a game that tried this? you end up with 1/2 the population trying to abide by the rules while the other half stomps the shit out of them. GMs try to enforce it, but only end up swamped by complaints while players get increasingly up in arms about how nothing is being done and eventually everyone who was trying to adhere to the rules stops trying and goes back to ganking ... with a vengeance.

all you end up with is a bigger mess than what you started with. the only way to really moderate something like this is with segregation (as in PVP maps and PVE maps).
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 7:19PM Fakeassname said

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@Fakeassname

err, thats supposed to be "cite" not "site"

though the later kind of has a level of irony to it.
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:44PM Bramen said

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I like jump functions. If they are not there and I get stuck behind a stone in my path I get annoyed to know end. I can kill mighty dragons and save the world, but this rock ended my journey.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:48PM eLdritchZ said

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having picked up guild wars lately to take a shot at being an obnoxious twat by doing 50/50 HoM I have to say that not being able to jump just annoys me... worst example being winded mountain paths with 2 meter high slopes between the road -.- it just costs useless time and adds nothing to the immersion...

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 6:52PM darthades said

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"""but I think people are missing the best element of the whole addition of an appearance tab. Sure, it's something that players have been asking to get for years on end without receiving a response, but the best part is that its addition essentially invalidates every single answer we've received to date about why it can't be done. That amuses me to no end."""

Spot on, Blizzard made hundreds of lame excuses over the years against the Appearance Tab.

I always knew it was a cover up, the real reason is: it devaluates high end raiding e-peen factor, that is one driven force for their EVIL skinner box gear grind formula designed to addict weak minded individuals

So why did they implement it now? because they are losing casual subscriptions, so they are loosening their raid favoritism, another one of those moves is making firelands raid 7 boss only. Yes, hardcore raiders are pissed off like no tomorrow by the AT, which is a good thing for the market =P

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 11:02PM Averice said

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@darthades What are you talking about?

There were 2 reasons given, and only 2, throughout WoW's existence.
1. Resources.
2. Game play and immersion issues when you've got warriors running around cleaving things to pieces wearing cloth outfits. Or vice versa with a mage blowing people up wearing heavy plate. It's called trying to keep a consistent art style.

Rift showed how perfectly it could be done though, and Blizzard finally felt like devoting the resources to getting it done.

So the "real reason"? If you have some strange conspiracy theories about e-peen's, then you need to stop caring about e-peens so much.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 1:00AM Space Cobra said

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@Averice

I only heard from PvPers claiming that they needed such a thing to identify what you are wearing/carrying with their insta-encyclopedia-like minds so they can know what they are up against and take advantage. (Like they carry full sets of armor/weapons for every occasion...)

So in two seconds, they size you up and see all the tiny things you carry.

Yeah, I felt that was stupid reasoning (but again, I mostly heard players say this in defense). It's one of the reasons I lost interest in WoW initially.
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Posted: Aug 26th 2011 7:02AM Luftwaffles said

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@Space Cobra

Yeah, that was all just code for "I want to visually tell who has crappier gear than me, so I can gank them with ease."

Honestly, this makes PvP more fun, because you could be walking into a clever trap.. and heaven forbid we learn to deal with situations instead of exploiting weak new players.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2011 9:05PM drunkenpandaren said

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@Averice

You also forgot about the third reason, which was brought up more recently with the whole overcloak scandal at the end of Wrath. Hyping up the overcloak then at the last minute pulling it out because they didn't want people to over look the art that's on every piece of gear when they're just going to place something else over it.
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Posted: Aug 25th 2011 8:25PM (Unverified) said

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Probably the silliest bit of this to respond to, but I find the jumping in WoW pretty indispensable with some classes. It's not just eye candy or flashy animation, it can actually be quite useful when running away from something to quickly release an instant cast while still moving forward.

And yes, I miss it when an MMO doesn't have it. I checked out FFXIV in beta and not being able to jump, among a whole host of other reasons that have come to light time and time again, was a huge mark against it and a big reason I never came back to it. Not being able to make it up a curb? Seriously?

To me, MMOs without jumping are the types that tend to just want to usher you through a corridor of content in a straight path. Sure WoW has invisible walls and other contrivances to keep you inbounds, butit still feels open and is for the most part. I'm not sure I'd want an MMO that let you fly out over the ocean for 6 hours of nothing but water... I'd be too curious about what might be there in 7 hours and waste my time. And there are plenty of times I've jumped my way out of bounds in WoW... no jumping is just for lazy developers who want to make sure we follow the game through the way they want us to.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 11:36PM Popplewell said

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Jumping allows you to travel in one direction and shoot in another.

If you don't know why that's useful then maybe it's time wonder why.

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