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Reader Comments (90)

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 6:55PM alinos said

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yeah but i know people who quit lotro over the sole reason they couldn't go around ganking and griefing people
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 7:14PM (Unverified) said

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@alinos Good riddance man LotRO has the nicest online community I've ever come across (granted I've only played WoW, EQ2, Rift, and about a week of Vangaurd on my wife's account before she let it lapse.). There's already a few places set aside for griefers in the MMO world Eve and Conan :D.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 5:02PM (Unverified) said

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Unfortunately SWTOR needs to fail just to send a message that we don't want rehashed games that offer little to no innovation whatsoever. If this game had been released in 2007 then it would be a good game, as it stands it doesn't even offer features that are on par with other MMOs (and WoW) that are already and have been out for years.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 6:02PM hereafter said

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It doesn't need to fail though. If a message is to be sent, it will be through the success of these other MMOs that people are pinning their hopes on, like GW2. If TOR got 1 million subscribers and GW2 got 3 million, wouldn't that send the same message without all the unnecessary schadenfreude of watching a game/studio fail? TOR would still succeed with such numbers, the other games just need to do better.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 5:13PM Rayko said

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@Janitor

You obviously didn't understand the last sentence in his post.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 5:57PM hereafter said

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What I suspect will happen is that TOR will release, secure a few million consistent subs, while other new MMOs will get a few as well. WoW will slowly die off as people move onto these newer games. I think TOR will be successful, but it won't get 10 million subs or anything. It doesn't need that many. We don't need it to have that many. I don't want to TOR to supplant WoW in every way, I just want it to succeed. Same with GW2, TSW, WildStar, etc. I want them all to succeed. I hope they all have a few million customers and don't suck. Anyone who wants TOR to fail because they're worried it will be TOO big needs to calm down. It can't be as big as WoW was/is, nor does it need to.

Posted: Aug 24th 2011 4:27AM (Unverified) said

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@hereafter

Finally, a reasoned view regarding this whole scenario. I honestly got tired of reading every post on this thread being "lol TOR needs 2 fail bcuz I luv GW2".

Other MMOs have been successful in their own way and not been WoW killers, and certainly have less subscriptions. I personally am looking forward to how things will pan out in the coming year or so - if only people would learn "to each their own", though. There are going to be plenty of contenders, no matter their budget or pedigree, which are going to be interesting.
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Posted: Aug 24th 2011 5:41AM hereafter said

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The strange thing is that the people saying TOR is derivative, uninspired, and unappealing are the same people are the same people worried it will succeed and feel the need to tear it down at every opportunity. It's such an infuriating mentality. They think it needs to fail for the good of the MMO industry or something.

If it sucks, it won't do well. So why are they worried? Why attack it, especially when a high-profile game like GW2 is just around the corner? It's as if they doubt their own convictions, as if they're worried everyone will love it anyway. It's like they think they know what's best for the industry and have decided TOR's not it and as such, should be eliminated. It's the only thought process that fits what I've read around the net. Because a normal thought process would involve disliking it and paying it little to no attention. But TOR is already getting anti-establishment aggro like Call of Duty or WoW gets.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 6:14PM Graill440 said

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Really confusing article, what was your ultimate point? This article was like a scene from Wisdom. GW2 is not an issue as its not out yet, along with one of the main points of your article SWTOR, not out, also tag wow's other project, not an issue, giving props to Rift for even surviving is comical as they will not release numbers and thus cannot be included in any discussion or trusted.

There is a term for what you tried here, i do no think it worked out as you planned. And what options? Nothing is out to be given an option. Your article was an "imagine this" piece with some type of dream sequence thrown in, coupled with your absolutes i cant say this was one of your better pieces. (Grin)

It doesnt have to be big, it doesnt need to be small, it needs to be entertaining, no entertainment, no money, a very simple formula.


Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 6:34PM Sente said

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I do not really agree with your reasoning here - if SW:TOR would fail, and with that meaning it will not turn a profit, but rather a loss, they only thing signal really sent is that really big budget titles are risky projects - which is nothing new at all.

It would not be a kick in the guts for MMO titles in general - any decent invenstor would not just look at subscriber/player numbers, but rather at profitability and the risk/reward factor.

A game with 10% of SW:TOR's budget could be very attractive from an investor point of view also if they have a low break even point and thus also a relatively low investment risk.

If SW:TOR succeeds, it need to succeed significantly if investors should start to believe that it is possible to make big planned MMO success on purpose.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 6:35PM alinos said

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only message that SWTOR succeeding will send is yes make a copy of WoW. Just make sure it's an expensive copy. And you've added some other things

The waters are also muddied by the fact that it is a star wars game.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 8:07PM SpeedLazer said

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As long as it keeps the KotOR fans happy, none of this big-budget MMO WoW-killer business really matters.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 9:00PM (Unverified) said

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"if it fails, this will likely tell the world that big-budget MMOs do not function."



no it will tell the world that big budget WOW clones do not function and maby gaming companies will acutally stop using shitty mmo tab target combat.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 9:30PM Shardie said

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I wonder why people have such hate for different projects, as to wanting them to fail, wanting to ruin someones hard work, are people so selfish, so petty?
I want them to succeed, not just TOR, but GW and any other MMO. Since when has this been a competitive market of kill or be killed? The two can coexist easily.

But to be fair, I think GW2 has the potential to be the greater letdown of the two, most peoples expectations of TOR are somewhat subdue, so they will not expect the world but if, IF guild wars 2 doesn't meet consumers expectations, the drop in faith would be much greater, the crying and outrage would shake the world

Thats an IF, by the way.

Posted: Aug 24th 2011 8:06AM Irem said

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@Shardie
Most of the diehard GW2 fans have fairly reasonable expectations. People who have been following the game for a while have had the chance to stick through announcements that disappointed us, and we have tons of solid information about the game to temper the visions of our wildest dreams. Weirdly enough, the people I've seen who have the highest expectations of it are cynical about its chances of success or delivery on its promises. If it doesn't blow those people's minds, they'll consider it a failure...but the chances of any game sufficiently impressing them are probably pretty low.
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Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 10:15PM (Unverified) said

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Another useless article from Massively. I disagree on all all fronts. It has already been proven that people like to play games that many wouldn't give the time of day. CCP proved this with Eve online. Your silly way of dealing with the MMO industry as if it's fate rested solely upon the success or failure of what looks like a great game, is simply silly.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2011 11:24PM Bramen said

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Mass Effect MMO? No thanks.
Mass Effect multiplayer? Yes please!

Posted: Aug 24th 2011 7:30PM Jagoss said

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Bribes?? No G4 does the exact same thing. What they do is, have a questionnaire with people who play the game at the convention. They as meaning the people who are running the convention..at the end of the show they tally said questions, and count up the votes. Best in Show, Best MMO and so forth is then announced. It is less as dirty handed or shady as bribes..

Having been to E3, and other 'shows' it is stated when you walk through the door that the Convention will tally such votes
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Posted: Aug 24th 2011 12:49AM Nucleon said

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I must disagree with the central thesis. It's akin to saying if Avatar does well that no one will make Hurt Locker. Which movie won the Oscar again? Which movie made a good profit. Both movies.

In all things investment, bigger leverage can yield bigger profits OR bigger losses. That is why both models will always exist. Smaller projects are safer bets with lower top end potential, and big AAA block busters could be huge money makers or gigantic flops (waterworld anybody?).

If there are gamers, there will be investors looking to cash in on them, regardless of budget size.

Posted: Aug 24th 2011 1:48AM RedWolf said

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Actually WoW had a massive budget (for its time) of around $35 million. This is a game that was started around 1999-2000 at took 5 years to make. It was by far the biggest budget for any MMO at the time and was in no way "out of left field". It was based on the extremely popular WarCraft franchize from the makers of StarCraft, Diablo II and WarCraft III. I find your entire example extremely flawed.

The reason SWTOR needs to spend so much to compete with WoW is not the initial development cost, it's the many years of content at hundreds of millions of dollars that have been added since.

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