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Reader Comments (80)

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 12:52AM Utakata said

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@Eamil

That's interesting. And thanks for helping to answer that.

...so now, gathering being taking care as a non profession (as player character has access to the 3 ways regardless) would make the crafting system much more flexible than WoW despite only been allowed 2 crafting professions. It is though you where allowed to Blasksmithing and Jewel Crafting without ever rolling another toon to Mine for the specific mats. This worry and stress is now completely gone. And this is a very good thing.
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Posted: Aug 21st 2011 2:04PM Vanpry said

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Really can't wait to get my hands on this game.

Posted: Aug 21st 2011 3:17PM Viiral said

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basically they couldn't be assed to make a unique crating system so they copy pasted it from another game. looks plain generic.

i like the crafting in everquest 2. at least it makes you do something. not just push a button and wait.

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 7:43AM Dirame said

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@Viiral

Like I've said to many people, if you can come up with a crafting system that is just as engaging (if not more so) as the one shown above and doesn't become a chore after a while, then please I'd love to hear it.

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Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 6:03PM Graill440 said

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@Dirame

You asked. Nothing i type, no ideas, no mechanic, can be used by anyone or any business in any fashion.

First crafting will be useful, things will degrade and they must be replaced, this builds an actual economy.

Crafting ingredients are finite in some creative way, i wont go into this (grin)

Skins...oh so many skins....

Effects...choices here folks, again the mechanics are not disclosed.

Next the recipe itself, once discovered it has a special utility, and the more people that have the recipe (not the number of items made) the weaker the overall product. So it may just pay to keep your mouth shut.

Took me all of 2 minutes to imagine that, devs had how long?

Also short of actually getting a wii glove and doing the motions of creating the item (laugh) pushing a button is pretty much what you have as to execution.

Tell you what GW2, contact me, we'll do lunch. Laugh.
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Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 6:59PM Dirame said

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@Graill440
First off, why would you make the recipe's overal product degrade so people can shut-up about the recipe? How does that make them shut-up?

The only thing that makes any sense to me is the degradables. Apart from that what you have is a very bare bones and not well thought out crafting system. Nah mate, try again.
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Posted: Sep 4th 2011 6:00PM Valkesh said

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@Dirame

What he means by recipes degrading is that the outcome of the recipe becomes less powerful the more people that know it. There is another game which has done this, I don't recall it off hand, but basically the fewer people who knew the recipe, the more powerful the item/better the quality produced. This gets people to "shut up" about it because it makes more sense to keep the recipe to themselves and their guild than to spam it out to everyone on the planet.
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Posted: Aug 21st 2011 3:40PM (Unverified) said

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Huh. Reminds me of, of all things, the Kingdom of Loathing crafting system, except with a level 'restriction' on when you can actually learn the recipe in question.

Frankly, I *like* the idea of being able to switch through all of the professions at a price, frankly--it's a nice balance, allowing us total self-sufficiency types to cycle through what we need at a given time (using the excess products of our effort to fund the switching), the ones who only need a limited selection to focus on just the craft(s) they want, and the ones who aren't interested in crafting for themselves at *all* to toss all those 'trash drop' crafting materials at people who can use them. :-)

As far as the recipes showing up on a wiki/whatever...so what? I'm not seeing a problem at all--the spaders (Explorers for the non-KoL Bartle inclined) will work them all out in a fairly short amount of time. So for us more practical-minded folk who are more interested in making the stuff rather than the 15 seconds of fame for having a server-first for a given recipe...big deal.

Similarly, the 'market monopoly' thing is a bit bogus as well. When the recipes/blueprints themselves are rare/limited items, yes you have that monopoly of only a few being able to make them. But in this situation, where anyone can stumble across the same Awesome Axe on their own at the crafting table without having to look for a rare drop/hard mission? Granted, if the *materials* for said recipe are hard to get (which given how they're handling mining/resource points, isn't that likely for most things), you may have a bottleneck/monopoly for a while for that particular material.

Posted: Aug 21st 2011 4:29PM Randomessa said

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I'm quite (pleasantly) surprised reading the comments that so many are liking what they see here; I expected much more of an uproar since this seems to be the most "traditional" of GW2's systems.

For my part, I wish they'd shown the actual crafting animations. Yes, I like to watch my character make stuff :). I still remember the glee I felt when I saw my LOTRO dwarf joyfully toss his hammer in the air before forging something or the other.

Posted: Aug 21st 2011 7:17PM Bladerunner83 said

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"However, unlike many MMOs that give you a set list of recipes based on your crafting level and then limit you to crafting only those recipes, Guild Wars 2's system allows players to experiment with different combinations of materials to see if they form a new recipe. Only guy on the server who's figured out how to make that badass warhammer? Don't tell anyone and monopolize the market!"

Blizzard attempted to do this with Diablo 2, by hiding the secret combinations of the Horadric cube at first launch. Eventually it was pointless, because everyone wanted to be the first to announce they had figured out the combination and soon every recipe was on the internet. I give it 3 months before you can make everything in that game; Unless they secretly add new recipes in every patch. Like communism it looks good on paper, but fails in real life application.

"Also gone are the days of skill points. Rather than giving crafting recipes a somewhat random chance to give you a skill-up, Guild Wars 2's crafting system provides you with an experience bar for your trade skill, with each completed recipe providing a set amount of experience toward the next level."

Set amount of exp vs. a skill point? Those two concepts are so similar, they both do the exact same thing. You accrue exp rather than a skill point to achieve another level gain. They are only trading skill points for exp points, then claiming that its different. Additionally it is a set amount of exp, no different then simplifying the process by adding 1 skill point.

I'm a tad critical, due to all of the positive hype on this game. Most of the "new" ideas proposed are simply old ideas. I have yet to read something that truly defines Guild Wars 2 as a unique game. I'm sure they want to keep the old fans happy and that's a good thing; Sadly I was not fond of the old game and most of the "new" ideas has not swayed my opinion to a positive outlook of the new game.

Something that bugs me about all of this, is the question:

How is Guild Wars 2 different from other MMOS?

and the official answer...

At ArenaNet, we have one mission: to make Guild Wars 2 the best MMORPG ever. To learn how we intend to do that, check out Studio Head Mike O'Brien's Design Manifesto blog post and our MMO Manifesto video!

Now I've been through most of the content on these websites and as of yet, there is nothing original in Guild Wars 2; You can have the same experience in another game. Don't hate on me just yet, there could be more down the pipeline. If your mission is to make the best MMORPG ever, you better have your ducks in a row; Additionally you're going to need to bring originality and uniqueness to the table. It should also appeal to the masses for substantial revenue, but yet again they are sticking to their existing trend and surviving off of one-time box/digital sales, while everyone else creates new ways into our pockets. If the game is spectacular then it would be worth every penny, even if it required a monthly subscription. Kudos to them, hopefully it won't hinder their content updates.

Posted: Aug 21st 2011 7:39PM Randomessa said

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@Bladerunner83

Not to belabor the point and drag this comment thread off-topic, but even in the bit you quoted from the Manifesto, there is no mention of completely original features (which is why I get confused when people accuse GW2 of not doing something they never promised to do), just a description of how things work. Now, where I differ with you is that you say you can have the same experience offered in GW2 in other games, so I was just wondering: which games?

I mean, which game offers "all of the above" so to speak? Scaleable branching events (public quests if you will, though that's only a rough analogue), no quests, personal branching storyline, sidekicking, event-scaling, action+hotkey hybrid combat, removal of holy trinity fixed roles, rezzing for everyone, downed system, skill gain through weapon use, non-honing skills, different weapon sets and skills for underwater combat, environmental weapons, shared exp/resource gathering, both arena-mode and RvR pvp from level 1, and other features? Oh, and no subscription fee.

Now, I could list a game or two each (some of them not MMOs) that had a few of these features, but all of them? Just point me in that direction and I'll be there (I need something to do with my time until GW2 releases, anyway)!

Don't get me wrong. I am currently enjoying Dragon Nest somewhat, Champions Online warms a spot on my desktop, and I'm still playing the original GW1 from time to time, as well has having at least taken for a test drive every other PvE MMO on the market from some time or another, but none of these games offer the full breadth of features I'm looking forward to in GW2.
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Posted: Aug 21st 2011 8:14PM Biggestgame said

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This brings back memories of testing out tapers before splitpea in AC. Then it was amazing when you saw a mage casting level 7's.
Too bad they don't make each toon have its own variables for crafting recipes to keep it fresh and stop people from posting the recipes in 48 hrs. Maybe wouldn't work.....I don't know...

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 1:07AM BarGamer said

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It's not a minigame, it's a basic probablity test:

It looks like the crafting window knows what's in your inventory, and gives you possibilities from there. If so, there's an easy way to figure out what recipes you can discover.

Simply put each item in the first box, take note of which ones offer how many possible recipes, from highest to lowest. Then start discovering: Put in the component with the most possible, and in the second box, put the component with the second-highest possible recipes, and work your way down from there. For each successful recipe, subtract 1 from each component's "possible recipe" number. EASY!

If a component's "possible recipe" is or reaches ZERO, stop putting it into the discovery window! >_

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 1:40AM Yog said

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The guy trying the crafting must have ADD or something because he tried the different combinations totally at random and would often try the same thing multiples times or only try half of the possible combinations.

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 4:34AM Graill440 said

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The sad thing is people want the credit so they post to get it, recipes will flow like water, including rare combos. I really doubt though the crafting system will be so robust that combinations will outstrip curiosity and with simple time investments all recipes will be found, that is if raiding doesnt hide ingredients from the subscribers.

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 9:35AM j1083 said

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I'm really gonna miss herbalism/alchemy, I have to say...

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 12:12PM (Unverified) said

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So what we have here is a crafting system with unknown recipes that you need to discover to learn, not just pay money to a trainer. You gain experience for crafting items to gain levels to craft better items. If you decide you aren't happy with a profession, you can swap to another profession without losing all the progress you currently have made on your former profession. Did I get that right?

This sounds a hell of a lot like every other MMO crafting system to me other than you being able to switch professions without regrinding a new one.

Experience bar as progress? Hooray...oh wait, you mean as I craft more things I gain points and can then craft better things? Ya, not really an improvement. Different words for what looks to be the same progress as every other MMO.

Recipes. So they don't just give you the recipes to use. You have to figure them out for yourself or be taught them by someone else. Interesting concept, but its just not going to be much different than current MMO's in the end from the look of things. They aren't going to have an unlimited number of combinations to create weapons/armor/potions/etc.

Fairly soon after launch someone will put up a webpage with all the combinations/recipes that GW2 isn't telling you right off the bat. So yes, you may be the first on the block to make an item (sounds a lot like the first to loot a recipe in other MMO's to me) but very soon after, others will know the same thing either from websites or word of mouth.

Maybe if they put in a system where the resources had variable quality (ie., the metals/waters/gases of SWG) and that could affect the quality of your weapons, that would be awesome. So I discover the recipe for 2h Sword of Badassery. If I corner the market on some top end metal, I can make the best 2h Sword of Badassery. Someone else might discover/steal the recipe I discovered, but without the same metal, mine will still be better.

Sadly that won't happen.

Looks like they just use a different progress bar and different words to make the same thing happen as most MMO's out there. How is this a revolutionary crafting system again?

If there aren't going to be crafted items that are highly desirable to players at all stages of the game, this is just going to be WoW crafting all over...except fotm rollers will have an easier time once they've maxed things out once.

Posted: Aug 22nd 2011 12:31PM Soulstitchmmo said

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Overall I approve of the crafting system. The 'discovery' system really isn't that different than just buying the crafting recipes or rather getting drops. There will only be so many different recipes in game. So once they are all discovered and advertised, then the entire system is redundant.

Posted: Aug 25th 2011 1:12PM xyberviri said

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"Rather than giving crafting recipes a somewhat random chance to give you a skill-up, Guild Wars 2's crafting system provides you with an experience bar for your tradeskill, with each completed recipe providing a set amount of experience toward the next level."

Great yet another Grind to advance craft system.

Did the days of star wars galaxies teach them nothing, everyone just goes after the Level by Crafting grind but not the more open system it created.

How about if game designers actually look to the realworld and create a crafting system that was a game in itself and let players learn basic skeletal structures to craft onto and create a truely open ended crafting system.

add in some ways to create alloys and compounds that affect end statistics

Posted: Sep 4th 2011 5:57PM Valkesh said

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I love games that encourage you to try things and discover recipes rather than simply going "ok, here's a list of the crap you can make. Go gather materials and spam combine." because they want to put zero effort in the crafting system.

Only thing that would make this better is if they went the Ryzom route where resource nodes spawn more or less randomly and each resource has a quality rating that effects the outcome of the overall item.

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