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Reader Comments (54)

Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:05PM Dril said

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I was hoping for reveals of *more* content, not just playthroughs of stuff already announced. I mean, I'd like to play the game myself (and know *what* I can play) rather than watch fuzzy pictures of (probably terribad) players PvPing and BioWare employees raiding.

Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:08PM (Unverified) said

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I've been frothing with anticipation waiting to hear about end game. Frothing, I say!

Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:12PM (Unverified) said

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@Ren54

I will have fun with a hopefully polished just released game. Did WoW have an end game when it launched? No. So i'll take what i can get, be patient, and not feel so entitled nor troll-tastic. Thanks!
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:12PM Lucidus said

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@Ren54 and don't forget being able to keep running the same rail shooter over and over and over!
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:17PM Mtor said

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@Ren54 Raids, battlegrounds and rerolling are your only options at level cap.

Bioware really is banking on story and voiceovers and companions to carry the game. Heh. This is like watching a 100,000,000 trainwreck in slow motion.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:22PM Dril said

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@(Unverified)

No, WoW didn't have much of an endgame.

On the other hand, levelling in classic was a total PITA and took months, if not years (oh, no sir, we didn't have no QuestHelper built-in to the map, or even the AddOn of the same name, we certainly didn't have WoWhead's snazzy maps with little dots pointing out where quest mobs were, Thottbot was a bit of a hit and miss when it came to finding info, you got your "killer app" ability at level 40 rather than level 10 if you were lucky, along with your relatively expensive 60% mount, there were no heirlooms, rested XP was a coveted thing, using flight paths could be detrimental to your wallet, you had to go back to a major city every even level to get moar new ranks and if you wanted to level as a tank or healer you would have more fun watching paint dry.)

If BioWare are smart, they'll make levelling take at least 2-4 months for the average player, so they can add more content to the endgame.

If it takes 2 weeks, it won't be a fantastic exemplar of terrific design.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 2:33PM (Unverified) said

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@Dril

It's already been said numerous times that each character's story is longer then KOTOR, and it's impossible to be effective without doing the story, so i don't think it'll be that much of a problem.

I'm not one for carebears and the "casual" movement that's hit WoW, but i don't think MMOs should be designed for the world first type people. It needs to be designed for the general person.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 3:31PM Dril said

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@(Unverified)

"It's already been said numerous times that each character's story is longer then KOTOR"

And KOTOR was 500 hours long, was it?

My new warrior alt has just reached 60 in WoW in 2 days /played (that's pretty crap, actually, but it's not too bad) and 48 is longer than most SRPGs will last. In all honesty, I think levelling in TOR is going to be extremely quick and it'll bite them in the ass when even very casual players hit the cap and think "what now?"
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 4:11PM (Unverified) said

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@Dril Well what are you basing that on? Cause it seems like you're basing it on a game that is trying it's hardest to net people into raiding and making alts ASAP.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 4:17PM Bolongo said

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@Dril
I seem to recall they've claimed "200 hours of story" for each class, which I interpret as finishing your class quest and dinging 50.

Now, if you have a life and only play a couple of hours per day that will take several months. If you don't and play 16 hrs/day you'll be done in 2 weeks. Take your pick. :)
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 4:42PM Dril said

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@Bolongo

I'm sure your fantastic and amazing life is superb in every way and you relish every second of it, knowing that you're spending your time experiencing all its joys and experiences and galumphing in its bounty and lusciousness.

Excuse me for having a bit more free time than you, and spending it playing MMOs.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 4:44PM SFGamer69 said

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@(Unverified)

Exactly. I hadn't played WoW in about 1.5 years till this past weekend, because my roommate wanted to give it a spin. I've got a comped account, so i hopped in, and got the recruit a friend thing going with him. 6 hours in and we were at level 35...I recall my first time through in Vanilla wow took me almost a year before I hit 60, playing maybe a couple hours a day back then. it's obvious that WoW wants you to level quickly to endgame, seeing as getting 3x the XP is the bait for this promotion. Is the leveling so bad now that they are actually enticing new players to zoom right on through it all?

I'm hoping for a long leveling curve, because that's what i enjoy most, i do like raids and other end game pursuits, but the questing and exploring is what kept me playing WoW...when that ended, i tried rolling alts, only to find myself doing the exact same quests, just on a new toon, not fun. If I get some amount of variation on quests and story with SWTOR by re-rolling, and still hitting end game raiding with the first toon, I should be well satisfied for some time based on what they have stated about each classes story length...

In any case, everything here is just guessing, until we get our hands on it. I'll keep my optimism despite a lot of the negative vitriol that seems to get thrown out about a game many have not even had time with.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 5:17PM Vagrant Zero said

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@Dril 16 hours a day? That's not free time. That's you being a parasite. Get a job you hippie.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 5:20PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

I dont know what game you played, but there was plenty to do at the end game for Vanilla WoW,

- They had plenty of max level dungeons including: Scholomance, Stratholme, LBRS, UBRS, BlackRock Depths. Then a raid soon after launch.

- Their crafting system will quite simple was very relevant to end game playtime. You had to grind for materials and recipes

- The currency wasnt inflated and their were items/mounts (etc) to spend time working towards

- Attunements, key quests, and epic quests that spanned multiple zones/continents (the epl quest still is fresh in my memory)



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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 5:39PM Dril said

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@Vagrant Zero

Learn to read, mayhaps, before talking about parasites.

I didn't say *I* have 16 hours, Bolongo just used it as an arbitrary number. I just have more than 2 hours a day (is that too much, oh mighty taskmaster?) Now, rather than throwing around random words like "hippie" shall we actually get back to the issue at hand? (If you really want to know, I have 3-5 hours on weekdays and more on weekends. On hectic weeks I'll play for 10-15 hours in total, on lax ones it could go as high as 40. Such is life.)
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 5:50PM hereafter said

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@Dril

So then according to the 200-hour estimate, you'd be done in 5 weeks at best.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 6:04PM Dril said

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@hereafter

Yup, but we don't know if that 200 figure is accurate, and, considering they want you to go straight from questing into operations, just over a month really isn't that much at all.

Especially when you consider that MMOs make money from subs, having 2 months of content (assuming people play 3 hours a day, on average) for levelling and then relying on what looks to be a very small endgame makes it another "three monther" MMO-lite.

Look, I'm hyped for TOR, and I really want to play it. But unless they show otherwise, it looks like the game will be all voice-overs and not much content.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 6:17PM Wensbane said

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@Dril

You don't have to apologize, just realize that you are the exception, not the norm.

People such as yourself will always burn through content at a rate that is impossible to accommodate.
No developer, no matter how large, can release high-quality updates every few days. That much is obvious.

200+ hours of content per character is quite good for a brand new MMO. Especially since it's Bioware-quality content, not Star Vault-quality content. There's a world of difference and it should be noted.

In any case, I think you're just repeating yourself in every single post about SWTOR, because you're disappointed that this game won't be for you and others like you. Which is somewhat understandable.

Just remember that "hardcore stat grinders" already have their WoW, while I'm still waiting for my fully-immersive storyline-centered MMORPG.

I think it's about time you let us have a place of our own.
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 7:31PM Dril said

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@Wensbane

Then why is it that WoW managed to entertain me at launch for months on end; and most of the stuff I was playing through wasn't added in patches, it was there at launch? I hate to bring WoW in again, but there are other examples as well: LOTRO, EQ2, all of them shipped with a fairly hefty levelling period. Post-2008 games have had content that barely lasted 3 months in most cases.

200+ really isn't, considering that games from the past, with smaller budgets and smaller teams, produced things that lasted longer.

No, I'm disappointed that the game simply will not have content, period. It isn't a "I need 5 raids and 60 dungeons at the cap to keep me entertained," it's more this line of thought:

-There doesn't look to be all that much group content at the cap, from what we've seen thus far.
So:
-Either they expect people to level slowly (to keep subs and thus money) or they expect people to reroll (so people keep playing and paying.)
But:
-200 hours is not very long to level, even for the average (not casual, average) player. Assuming that's the case, there is a serious dearth of content that can and will cost them subs and money.
OR
-They're totally fine with people rerolling as an "endgame" activity, in which case: why bother with an MMO at all? Why not just make KOTOR 3 and be done with it?

I don't want a hardcore stat grinder. I'm done with WoW as a game, I'm done with raiding being for anyone who turns up in unenchanted Zandalari heroic gear to be carried by other people and for them to then tell my alt "omfg nub ur ilvl is teh low and u no haz acheefment so gtfo". I just want *content*. I want to relive my experiences of 3+ years ago where I could always find something to do that wasn't just another stupid achievement for a title I'll likely never wear, or a mount that looks crap anyway.

I want a fully-immersive story-based MMO as well. But with EA's reported investment, I can't help but wonder: where the hell has all the money gone? Rift cost 50million and had a reasonable if not fantastic amount of endgame content at launch; and it pumped out updates quickly that boosted it.

If TOR costs 150mil (or, even worse, 300mil) and launches with less content, I doubt VOs will make up for it, however immersive they are. This not a SPRG with a clear end. This is an MMO. People have been playing some of them continually for 11 years.

There already is a slow-paced, story-focussed MMO. It's LOTRO. But LOTRO also lacks content.

I don't want a super hardcore raiding MMO with a billion hardmodes all to do.

I just want to log in, and think "Ah. I have something to do."
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Posted: Aug 12th 2011 7:33PM Dril said

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@Dril

Edit: I should clarify: when mentioning LOTRO at the end, I'm referring to its present incarnation, not its launch version.
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