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Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Aug 10th 2011 6:41PM Deadalon said

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Just look what is happening in UK atm. If enough ppl are doing it - its considered to be ok. And the more that are doing it - the less likely it is that you get cought.

Now.. Thats the reasoning that we are hearing. Numbers do NOT justify a behaviour that really is dmg - not only the virtual world - but also the real one.

Its VERY easy to punish the ppl involved. Ban the accounts involved. Saying it effects those that are playing the game for the right reasons is bullshit. Its not.

WHats next ? Do ppl really think that Gold farming is just the only problems in gaming? You think that ppl that have been breaking the rules for years all of a sudden will follow other rules like exploiding - scaming and cheating? No - it will increase and less and less will be playing the games for the right reasons - and those that do will be effected even more than ever.

Posted: Aug 10th 2011 7:03PM Mykell said

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I hate gold farmers but all they are doing is providing a service a hell of a lot of people seem to want. Developers not only implement restrictions that affect the law abiding players but they also spend lots of time and money trying to combat this problem and those are resources that i am paying for but aren't being spent on something i want like more content, more polish, expansions etc.

Instead of trying to stop the farmers they need to find a way to stop people wanting to buy gold. But like was mentioned time = money so people wanting to get ahead or not get behind will always want to buy gold or items. I'm not sure you can stop them tbh.

Somehow developers need to find a way to please these people while not disadvantaging customers who don't want to buy gold (easy huh). Maybe selling bind on purchase items that are good but not great for your level range.

Posted: Aug 10th 2011 7:26PM Deadalon said

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@Mykell

Stop ppl for wanting to buy gold ? Easy - make them earn the stuff they want in a resonable way. Secondly - Bann every obvious trading accounts for 2 months and the word will spread out that ppl are beeing banned for buying gold.

Simple.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2011 7:27PM Valdamar said

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I wish MMOs would focus less on loot and more on story and/or exploration - if I want a monty-haul type loot-gathering dungeon-runner then I'll play one of the Diablo games or one of its clones - I just can't get excited about loot in MMOs when almost every mob these days drops magical gear of some kind and most of it is fit only for vendoring (and all your gear becomes obsolete with the next expansion anyway) - modern MMOs just have way too much "skinner box" conditioning that eventually the rewards seem meaningless - you might increase a few numbers on your stat sheet with the occasional upgrade, but it won't be at all noticeable in gameplay.

I remember the week I quit EverQuest in 2002 - I realised I was less excited looting the best-in-slot chestpiece for my raiding rogue than I was looting a crappy cracked staff for my brand new mage alt, because at least with the latter I could sell it for the money to buy some low level spells to give me extra gameplay options (flexibility more than power), while the rogue chestpiece just gave me a few extra points of DEX/AC/HP that wouldn't even be noticeable in my gameplay.

One of the (many) reasons my all-time favourite MMOs are Guild Wars and City of Heroes is because loot really isn't that meaningful there - and the easily-attained loot you can get in CoH, enhancements, has a noticeable effect on gameplay at all levels by letting you customise your powers to match your own playstyle - while GW's loot is more about aesthetics than stats.

Honestly if MMO developers focused less on loot treadmills (and more on playing content to unlock further content) then the gold-farmers would have nothing to profit from. I certainly don't see any gold spam in CoH or GW.

Posted: Aug 10th 2011 10:30PM theinternetman said

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You cannot stop RMT. You cannot stop it with GMs, or regional blocks, or banning hardware IDs. (too expensive and hard to detect, VPN/Proxy, HWID spoofers) You cannot stop RMT, only reduce it.

Yelling at and punishing the players for RMT is not the way to go about things.

One of the main reduction methods I have not seen is having the server poll a player's IP frequently in-game. Anyone who has used a VPN knows that unless you pay out the nose it's pretty unplayable in terms of latency issues. Most gold farming operations are almost never located in north america.

Posted: Aug 11th 2011 4:25AM (Unverified) said

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Can anyone here point to a single MMO that has no RMT because of the efforts of the developers to combat it? Ok lets go a little further the company still has to be in operation, making a good profit and hasn't killed their own game and economies by trying to stop it.

I can't think of one, yet everyone here against it says easy, just ban them, or easy just devote thousands of man hours to CSR and forget game updates and improvements.

People just don't get it, you can't stop it and you just laugh at the people who think you can. Blizzard has the figures, knows how much it is costing them and knows that by providing a safe environment to do so will cut down on every negative aspect RMT creates.

Personally I admire the passion of these lead game developers who deplore RMT and think they can stop it. On the other hand there is no way in heck from a business stand point would I want them running my game.

Blizzard has the numbers, knows how much they spend fighting it.... and know that it will be better for everyone doing for example what they are in diablo 3. The anti RMT is finally in the minority, all research points it out, they just cry a little louder. Again, I sympathize with their plight, but it isnt based in reality any more. Actually, it never was, but today it is more transparent.

Posted: Aug 11th 2011 5:00AM Bolongo said

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Tokens and non-tradeable currencies are OK, but I agree that RIFT did it poorly. The millions of different shards or whatever you get from rifts are just confusing and frustrating. Planarite is better because it's a currency that stays with you throghout the game, but they had to reduce its usefulness because you can farm it from low-level content.

GW2 seems to be smarter about it. As I understand it, all Dynamic Events give the same currency, Karma, and farming is prevented by the system of your character level being bumped down when you play an event in a lower-level zone (so the content isn't trivial to you).
I'm less sure about the dungeon tokens: what they've said so far is that each dungeon has its own set of gear that you can only buy with tokens from that dungeon - that's fine, but what happens when your set is complete or you just don't want that set? What's your motivation to help out when your guildies want to run that dungeon? Oh well, I'm sure there are other rewards besides the tokens, they just haven't revealed them yet...

Posted: Aug 11th 2011 5:37AM Seffrid said

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I've always opposed cheating in MMOs, and have long felt the way to stop RMT is by perma-banning the buyers.

Whilst it is true that RMT and botting etc do harm the economy including through the auctions in MMOs, what also hinders effective trading in auctions is the lack of any need to buy anything there in the first place. Too many games these days give everything you ever need throughout most of the game (hardcore raiders apart, but then they raid to get the gear they only need in order to raid) in the form of quest rewards, and/or make crafting so easy and multi-classed that you can also craft everything you need rather than have to buy it from others.

Rift is very much a case in point. I can't think of a single thing I have needed or even wanted to buy at auction. It's pretty much the same in LoTRO, FE and AoC. The only games where I've done a lot of auction trading were EQ2 and WoW. Developers need to provide a reason to use the auction and then enforce the proper maintenance of the economy through tight controls on RMT and farming/botting.

Posted: Aug 11th 2011 7:29AM (Unverified) said

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@Seffrid

I disagree on the position you take where you say just perma ban them. The problem is people do use 3rd party sites, sometimes weeks or moths down the road those sites will take that credit card and buy 1,2 10 more accounts. They dont care if they get banned.

Sanctioning RMT and providing a safe way to do it, when you accept the fact that it cant be stopped ( again nobody can point out a single game to date that has).

I DO AGREE with you with your take on games killing their own economies. We might not agree on what to do about RMT but agree making the game worthless to play is not the answer. I also played rift and was disgusted by the crafting when I saw everyone could craft everything they needed with no effort. I thought why play?

Unfortunately games take this approach thinking if they make nothing valuable RMT will die. What they don't realize it also takes away from the game. Like you and I both agree when they give everything away there is no fun in it.

I think Blizzard is in the best position of any company out to know what is going on behind closed doors on RMT. When they decide to do what they did with diablo they didn't do it because it was the wrong move to do. They did it because they know exactly how much fraud/RMT etc goes on and this is the best way to deal with it for the betterment of all their players. Yes, the cry babies cry loud but they don't represent the majority any more and research proves it.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2011 12:53PM Seffrid said

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@(Unverified)

"I disagree on the position you take where you say just perma ban them. The problem is people do use 3rd party sites, sometimes weeks or moths down the road those sites will take that credit card and buy 1,2 10 more accounts. They dont care if they get banned."

I assume from the last bit that you're talking about the sellers being banned, and I agree that's a waste of time, which is why I was talking about perma-banning the buyers.

The term "ban" is misused in the context of cheating in MMOs. Very rarely does anyone get banned, they simply get suspended for a day or perhaps a week. That is useless both as a punishment and as a deterrent.

The other option that is grossly under-used in MMOs in my view is for the developers to disband guilds (eg where they have obtained guild ranks through exploits as is alleged currently in Rift) and/or delete characters that have been found to have cheated.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2011 3:04PM Nepentheia said

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I dunno...

I see the token systems as variety--offering different ways of getting different items.

I *much* prefer that over a homogenized "gold coin buys all" approach.

Posted: Aug 12th 2011 3:51PM tdavis25 said

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All these MMO developers have been effectively implementing an "Inverse Qualitative Easing", with the resulting hyper-inflation on whatever remains trade-able.

Scratching your head again? Imagine that the entire in-game economy is a giant fraction. The numerator...that is the top of the fraction...consists of all of the trade-able goods in the game. The denominator...that is the bottom of the fraction...consists of all of the currency that can be traded in the game.

Qualitative Easing, a method of jumpstarting a deflating economy proposed by Keynes (and a major part of Keynesian economics), adds to the denominator by increasing the amount of money available. The idea is that if a person perceives that they will get more money for what they produce, they will produce more. The problem is if they dont start producing more you end up with major inflation.

What everyone in MMO land has done with binding is subtract from the numerator (Thus the "inverse QE". Mathematically identical, just in the inverse). The idea is that if there is nothing to buy with gold, then gold farmers will have no market to sell to. The problem is that there is then no in game market and thus no economy in the game to speak of. You get the same effects as QE: Hyper-inflation on anything left in the trade-able goods part of the economy.

The real sin is that now players in-game time is worthless (lack of space intentional), as they have no way of trading that portion of their in-game time for a portion of another player's in game time. If time previously spent does not add to their current goal it becomes a sunk cost and their in game time looses value.

The corollary Bastiat's "Negative Railroad" is highly applicable here. In an effort by the developers to protect the player portion of the in-game economy by destroying the markets that enable gold farmer's in the first place. The problem is...they destroyed the markets and thus hurt the player economy.

Gold farmers are inflationary for in-game economies. There is no doubt about that. The problem is that the tools that are being used to counter gold spammers are actually having worse effects on game economies at this time than the gold farmers themselves!

I dont know what the answer is...but the current solution is far from ideal.

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