Week in Review: Pandas in the mist

@Furdinand
There's a pen-and-paper RPG like that. Or at least a supplement for one. I forget the name of it, but it was based on the TMNT game.

@Furdinand

Heck the MMO "Eternal Earth" is like that. It's set after the moon explodes and mankind disappears. But it's still your basic "medieval fantasy" setting.

@NeverDeath They've done lots of creative things...in raids. lol

The problem with WoW is that they're not creative outside what they do best.

I see so many F2P mmos have amazing character customization (traits, character looks, last names, user made back stories), housing (guild and personal), social features (like music, dancing, relationships).
Heck even some have fun mini games that are side things to do from the main content of the game.

WoW does none of this and it blows my mind how so many people are still willing to play WoW over other MMOs.

@NeverDeath

Disagree. Recycling content is not all they're doing. Firelands and the associated dailies hub isn't recycled. What they released in Cata is not recycled. They've also done interesting and creative things: the questing zones released with Cata are well done, utilizing phasing to totally change the way a zone works. Raiding content has been pretty well done, with world first guilds saying Heroic Ragnaros has been one of the most challenging raid bosses in a while. "The return players are seeing for their dollar is the worst in the industry" is an grand exaggeration.

@hami83

Because WoW is one of the best games in the genre. It's incredibly polished and offers a variety of things to do. Those who play WoW are content with what's in it. Not every MMO player needs housing or intense customization. So even if WoW doesn't do any of that, it caters to the people who don't care about any of that. If I'm into raiding, a game with subpar raiding but great player housing will not interest me, but a game with great raiding and no player housing WILL interest me.

@(Unverified)

The irony is you mentioned Ragnaros (ahem: recycled boss) at the same time mentiioning Firelands being new content.

@(Unverified) 2

You have defeated the purpose of your statement by not mentioning those who do not want to raid in WoW are SoL. Hense, things like player housing would be important to perhaps keep those players' retention. As evidence suggests, it's likely some of the reason why WoW is losing subscription numbers. Or don't they really count in your mind, because they're not raiding?

@Utakata

Yeah ZA/ZG/Naxx/Ony/Nef/Rag/Recycled/Recycled/Recycled.

Most of that content also has fully recycled item and set graphics as well. Just saying, they factually are lazy as shit.

@Utakata

Ragnaros is totally different in FL. If he were recycled then guilds would have downed him faster, yet they said he was one of the most challenging bosses in a while. The only thing "recycled" is his art assets which were also updated to include legs. Also, FL has 7 bosses, 6 of which are totally new. 1/7 bosses that are "recycled" does not make FL recycled.

Except it's false. People who PVP still PVP. They don't get new content, but as many people say, PVP is player-generated content. They don't necessarily need new battlegrounds because doing the same battleground doesn't mean all matches will be the same. There are those who do dailies or craft or level alts, they are not SoL. 5 mans are continually added to the game via patches.

Besides, this is all irrelevant. You stated that "WoW does none of this and it blows my mind how so many people are still willing to play WoW over other MMOs. " I'm saying WoW has other strengths and the people who play WoW play it because WoW is strong in what they DO want to play. I'm not saying WoW shouldn't have things like player housing, I'm saying people are content with what is in WoW because the game implements what it does have well.

@NeverDeath

Yeah ZA/ZG/Naxx/Ony/Nef/Rag/Recycled/Recycled/Recycled.

Most of that content also has fully recycled item and set graphics as well. Just saying, they factually are lazy as shit.

FL/Ulduar/ICC/BoT/SP/BWD/TotFW/ML/EoE/AQ/Hyjal/MC/OS/RS/GL/BT/Eye/Original content/Original content/Original content.

MMO's as a genre reuse art assets and set graphics and item graphics. Factually lazy as shit would be not releasing new content, which they did with Cata and every single expansion and patch releases.

@(Unverified)

Recycled boss is a recycled boss....no matter what they do with it. That includes adding a pair of new legs.

As for whether WoW do things great, depends what your doing in WoW that makes it great. As I said before, things outside of raiding isn't so great. Though I can't speak for raiders because I haven't raided since Wrath. You seem to enjoy it though.

But you are also being quite disingenuous in pointing out WoW still has a hold on so many people without respecting at one time what WoW was. And to many still is. That is, to their mind..it's the only MMO they have ever known. Thus they don't really have an accurate comparison what other games are like. And some I gather are unwilling to venture out further to try...and/or poo-poo it if it turns out to be something different. So that skews things considerabley in player's favorable outlook on this game. Just saying.

@(Unverified)

And if you understood the comment of Neverdeath what he actually means is that WoW has plenty of money to add new features to the game.
Instead of that the game has been stagnant for a while, the textures and NPC models are reused, etc.

IMO they do this as much as other MMOs so I don't see it as much of a problem, and the fact is that they are continuing the backstory of the game with bosses like Ragnaros.
But they haven't been introducing a lot of new features for the players to explore compared with other games in the genre.

For example: Rift in the short time it launched untill now added to the game 10 man raids (it didn't have them), crafter Rifts and PvP Rifts as well as alternative winning modes for their battlegrounds, expanded on the artifact system and added a wardrobe system independent from stats for example.

What new features did Blizzard include in WoW lately? And in features I am not talking about new rep grinds, or new raids. I am talking about actual new modes of gameplay.
In TBC they added Arenas, 25 and 10 man raids and Halaa.
In WotLK they added cross-server dungeons, heroics (dunno if this was in TBC though) and Wintergrasp World PvP Zone, the Achievements system.
In Cataclysm what new features did they bring to the game? Why can't they make gear independent from stats? Or add new more meaningful and different modes of World PvP? Please clear my doubts on this.

Nobody is saying that they didn't add another amazing raid to the game or a nice new BG. But what new FEATURE did they add to the game lately?

@Utakata

Repeating “recycled boss” ad nauseum doesn’t mean anything. If you’re talking about art assets, then yes, I’ll concede it’s recycled. If you’re talking boss mechanics then hell no. So if they made entirely new boss mechanics never seen before in any game but used Ragnaros’ art assets you’d still consider it recycled? That’s a biased view.

Also, things outside of raiding are great depending on what you’re talking about. Again, Cata introduced cool questing zones that utilize phasing much more. PVP is doing quite well, especially with the introduction of RBG’s, Honor Point fiasco aside. Raiding is a small subset of the fanbase, and everyone else not raiding is enjoying what they’re doing.

The thing about people being scared to explore new genres is not a fault of Blizzard’s. Sure, this may be many people’s first MMO’s but that doesn’t prevent them from looking at MMO additions that WoW doesn’t have. They SHOULDN’T be afraid to try other stuff, unless money is a concern. But if money is a concern, then that’s not restricted to new MMO players.

Your comparison with Rift is off. Rift is a new game that didn’t have the same amount of content as WoW, which is fine because no one expects a new game to have the same amount of content as a 7 year old game. Even WoW, back when it first launched, added content like crazy. Things like BG’s weren’t added till after launch. If you can find a 7 year old game that’s continually adding new game modes, then you have a fair comparison.

Also, they have their reasoning behind the lack of a wardrobe system: especially for PVP, they want players to know what class an enemy is by looking at gear. They’re not lazy, they just have a fundamental opposition to the wardrobe system.

And if you’re wondering about World PVP, there’s been some discussion on it. If you watch shows like PST or Tankspot, one of the hosts, Lore, talks about how World PVP in WoW doesn’t work because a game really needs to be designed around World PVP, it can’t just be added afterwards like in Outland. That’s just the opinion of one guy, but I do somewhat agree that World PVP in WoW is more complicated. That’s not me saying “Oh don’t hate on Blizz because World PVP is hard to add,” I’m just offering my opinion.

@(Unverified)

Content =/= Features. Content equates to more of the same. Features is different. And quite frankly WoW has a lot less features than it should.

Most games stop adding features after a while because they stop being PROFITABLE. This is not the case with WoW.

@(Unverified)

I never blamed Blizz for that, rather blamed its success. And I'm not speaking of players being araid of trying new stuff...rather one MMO being such a household name may of skewed the realizing there's other stuff out there to try.

However, I guess I will agree to disagree with your other rebuttles. Because I don't frankly want to tie up this subject with getting into specific details. And there's an awful lot of them. And also to state that your arguement would me more sound if we're speaking of everything before Cata. But IMO Blizz went off the rails with Cata in a very raid or die focused expansion that is likely slowling driving players away...

...I will leave you with this though:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/08/08/breakfast-topic-what-would-you-like-to-see-implemented-in-wow/

This discussion came up of sorts in this morning's WoW Insider Breakfast Topic. Lots of neat suggestions where put forth by the readers that would likely have a dramactic and improving effect on the game. And I suspect not many would be that hard to implement.