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Reader Comments (24)

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 6:10PM theinternetman said

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It's sad to see the game go into decline but I must say you have some really good insights in the game and appreciate your time experiencing WAR and praising its strengths.

I can't really think of anything other than a subscription cost decrease or F2P that would bring the population back.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 8:05PM Arsinek said

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@theinternetman I dont remember WAR ever trying to sell itself as a PVE game. I remember them saying it was going to have PVE but never a PVE game.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 8:07PM Arsinek said

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@Arsinek Which to me is how all MMOs should be. PVE should be an optional side track of an MMO.

WARs formula of the game revolving around capturing parts of the map is perfect. Someone just needs to do it where you dont get those empty middle tiers.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 6:26PM mysecretid said

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I've said before that WAR is probably the only MMORPG I've ever played where I actually /enjoyed/ the PvP, even though I typically sucked at it.

As you say, the battles were tied to the game's setting and lore, and to the backdrop of war, so it all felt very energetic somehow.

One thing I wanted to add though, is that the game's PvE storyline is what /brought/ me to WAR.

I loved that each race/faction has an over-arching PvE storyline, as well as individual quests.

That sense of scope -- of seeing the progress of the war from your race's perspective (in my case, the High Elves) as you adventure -- that's what drew me into the PvP.

I wanted to experience some of the warfare which was a constant backdrop to the PvE story which was unfolding .

Not saying that you're wrong, only that if WAR were a PvP-only game, I would likely never have tried it, let alone played it for so long.

Cheers,

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 6:34PM Eamil said

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I might be way off base here but I feel like T2 and T3 would be more active if they let you scale your level back down after you passed the tier's level cap, the same way they scale your level up if you're too low.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 6:42PM Avick said

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WAR has, quite easily, provided some of the very best MMO experiences I've ever had, and some of the very best I ever expect to have. When it works properly... man. It's just an incredible game. Unfortunately, it just couldn't deliver those moments on a consistent enough basis.

In that way, WAR is a lot like a rollercoaster. The ride itself is just tons of fun, but the hour+ long wait in between those 30 second rides really dissuades you from repeating it over and over. It really is a shame that the formula just couldn't quite be perfected.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 6:46PM MtthwRddl said

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I think you nailed it about the game. It's a PVP game. There's no need to make PVE seem necessary or needed.

In my perfect world, the game would be F2P w/ a cash shop like Lord of the Rings. Certain classes (the ones that came later - like the choppa) would cost cash to purchase while the standard five-six classes would be free2play. RVR-experience-buffs and related stuff would be purchasable and so would any future expansions (like the one with the rats as the 3rd playable realm).

Really, that's how the game should have gone in the first place. It needs to be F2P because of it's huge dependance on PVP.

It's quite a shame, because I feel if Warhammer Online had come out a few years later, in a society that is much more tolerant and acceptable to F2P mmos, it may have done much better.

I don't think it's over for Warhammer. You nailed it in your article, the RVR is still fantastic, when it works right. People play plenty of older games still due to them still being fun. But it's up to the developers to steer the game in the right direction.

I could easily see this game being the next LOTRO. Seriously.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 11:29AM Ardra Diva said

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@MtthwRddl

I seriously doubt that.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 7:51PM Yog said

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You started the article out spot on but it spiraled into oblivion when you said it was the players disliking the PvE elements that ended the game. It was the game as a whole but most especially the PvP aspect that drove everyone away. We were promised the game would, first of all, evenly distribute chaos and empire players and in the event that that didn't work they would provide the faction with less people a boost in power. But it didn't work...the servers were wildly unbalanced and you would usually see one faction compeltely destroying the other. It was advertised that there would basically be constant war going on in the pvp zones but most of the time you were just waiting around until someone gained enough people to attack and when they did attack it was over pretty quickly. The nail in the coffin was the promise that you wouldn't have to play PvE at all in order to enjoy PvP...yeah then they introduced those ward sets that you could only get doing PvE and were the only way you could possibly assault the enemy city.

Then the icing on the cake was the fact that the pve wasn't compelling, the crafting system was horrendous (which was really hard to take because they advertised it as the best crafting system ever), and to top it all off with a cherry half of the people playing had graphical glitches because the game wasn't completely compatible with one of the graphics card companies...forget which.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 8:49PM skaaz said

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Get rid of the tiers in pvp. they allready boost your stats in rvr and bg's in the tiers. Just make it one tier.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 9:50PM (Unverified) said

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I stopped playing WAR one month after launch (but payed for a few months longer hoping the stability or lack thereof would improve...constant A.M. CTDs...nighttime was ok)

The Tier 1 scenarios were the most enjoyable PvP for newbs that I've ever experienced.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 2:47AM GenericPerson said

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I gave the game a number of tries, always a few months apart or after major patches. The RvR was outstanding, but always found myself waiting for a battle. Everything seemed very reactive, there would be times I logged in and we owned everything and nobody was playing the other faction to take it back. Then when there were battles they were small and hardly worthy of the time spent.

Sadly, I won't go back to Warhammer Online. The combination of Mythic drifting from the tried and true RvR model in Dark Age of Camelot and EA only pushing out half complete ideas because they only want to make money drives me away from any of their titles.

Fun articles! Love the Choose My Adventure series, good job Eliot and Massively staff!

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 4:57AM burnleyjohn said

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After the first month, I didn't subscribe to WAR. I'm in Europe and the launch was completely messed up by Mythic's launch partner over here. Coupled with that, there didn't seem to be a community, or any kind of teamwork going on. Just an every-man-for-himself attitude.

I was depressed about it, because I could tell it was a good game, and that there was potential for greatness. I even enjoyed the PvP which is unusual for me.

I went back on one of their "come back and play for a few days" offers a few months later, but Tier 1 was deserted. It's pretty difficult to persevere in an an empty game world.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 11:30AM Ardra Diva said

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@burnleyjohn

What did you expect from a game where PvP is so cherished? It's going to foster a selfish attitude.

Take PvP out of a game and the population is suddenly a lot more mature and helpful...
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Posted: Aug 4th 2011 7:12AM FrostPaw said

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I think you are judging it now rather than why it lost so many people at launch.

My experience:

1) CEO announced after release they were focusing on PvP, as a PvE customer for 6 months that pretty much told me to get lost.

2) GOA managed my servers, messed up the community, I transfered servers 3 times and had to keep deleting characters to join the servers I wanted....that's more than any other mmo I have ever played.

3) Splintered community, too many servers, too many chat channels per zone, too many zones to play in, no lfg mechanic at launch prevented players from bonding.

4) Tier 4 RvR had too much scope for power imbalance. All earlier tiers were fantastic because everyone fought on a more equal and less broken power curve. Since you couldn't stay in those tiers everyone was destined to end up in the place they couldn't enjoy.

5) PvE loot at highest difficulty was never what you wanted and always useless to you. Refusal to ever reward players with usefull loot from the bags was a major flaw in doing endgame dungeons.

6) Complete lack of thought to balancing the RvR, always on a low faction server being outnumbered 3-1 on a daily basis is no fun. When the strong get stronger by beating you outnumbered the gap can only get wider.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 7:46AM randomeclipse said

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I'm still an active subscriber and the one and only reason for that is due to their not being another MMO out that can compare to the WAR PvP.

The look, feel and lore of the Warhammer world does help also as the game does look a little more grown up than other MMOs with it's mouthy NPCs and great Goblin characters.

It's a shame that more don't return to the game as there are some really nice improvements coming in the next patches, including Fortresses returning and DAoC style Relics that factions look to steal!

Interesting times ahead and as long as there's a reasonable player-base I will continue to play.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 9:32AM bleyzwun said

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WAR could have been a great game but Mythic took way too long to fix certain things. I also believe they were rushed by EA, and that's not something that should be done with MMOs. SCs should have also been cross server. At first I was against the idea, but once the pop dropped enough to feel the long waits, it should have been one of their main focuses. I feel this would have kept a lot of people playing longer, which would have gave them more time to fix the World PvP.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 10:34AM OmegaDestroyer said

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I only played a trial of the game but one thing I thought was a let down conceptually, was limiting the PvP to two factions. I understand from a design perspective how it was easier to implement PvP with two factions, but given the lore, I think not making it a free-for-all was a mistake.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 10:36AM OmegaDestroyer said

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Sorry for the Double Post.

In regards to the two factions, that is what has me worried about Dark Millennium. They want to do another Order v Destruction match-up and I think that will hurt it as much as it hurts WAR.

Posted: Aug 4th 2011 1:39PM Vandal said

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Generally agree that WAR's PvP was fun and the PvE was not. I would go so far as to say the PvE content was far below acceptable standards. It was lackluster and just plain boring. Public Quests were simply another grind mechanic and the crafting system was hideous. The storylines and quest text were below subpar. I've read bad fan-fiction that was better.

But a BIG problem was that for some reason Mythic decided to force players to do both PvP and PvE. You originally had to do PvE Public Quests to get PvP zones to flip (did they remove that?) There were PvE bosses you had to kill in keeps (I think those are gone). Some of the crafting required purely PvE grinding.

This is the fault of the developers, plain and simple. Rather than trying to meet the desires of their players, they thought they could force their players to jump through hoops.

Combine fundamental design flaws like that with horrible bugs that persisted months and months after launch (I remember it taking 2-3 minutes for a single letter to be accepted by the mail system), and there was no way WAR would retain players.

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