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Reader Comments (84)

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:45PM Saker said

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@SocksForYou Agree!
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:12PM Ocho said

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Very nice article. I whole-heartily agree. Its why if I read an article about STO or any other game, I refuse to read the comments. Like YouTube (even CNet is getting this way), the comments always seem to lower the enjoyment of the article itself.

For example, look at a rock concert, where a band plays a song and the crowd cheers. It'd be like if the band played a song, and the crowd yelled obscenities about how it sucked. Would you really want to go to concerts after that?

Yet, I sometimes still look.... because I like to hear the cheers, no matter how little there seem to be.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:21PM (Unverified) said

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I do not pretend to understand why some people spend so much time posting venom about an MMO, although I certainly understand why they may feel that way. I confess that I would dance a little dance of joy if SWTOR fell on its ass, as I firmly believe that LA killed SWG because of it. But while revenge fantasies may play out in my head, in the end I will simply vote with my wallet and not buy the game. Ranting and raving about how much SWTOR sucks (and, knowing Bioware, it will probably be a good game anyway) seems pointless.

Still, ahhh, how I would laugh if if sucked! :P

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:24PM terroni said

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Idea 1. Us Vs Them. Like sports, your allegiance is really arbitrary. But you will vehemently defend your team and defame the other side.

Idea 2. Universal Balance. For every hater there is a fanboi. The very presence of one side automatically begets the other.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:25PM Borick said

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Do people in sports complain about rabid fans?

I may spend a lot of time deconstructing video game tiitles, but I've never painted myself red and carried a giant foam finger for a sports team. I've never filled a Buffalo Wild Wings with supporters, cheering and hissing at a monitor.

Justin, are you folks getting flak from the ad department over the comments?

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:44PM Space Cobra said

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Good reasons all around in this article, but there are many more just like the number of opinions and people. There are even combos that mesh well.

Take "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpson's cartoon. He loves comics, but always points out the faults of them and other people's views. There is much of this going on in MMOs. Plus, one-liners are king! Half the audience won't even read long articles or discover true reasons for themselves.

Some folks pointed out "Pong Generation" and, IMO, its just part of getting old/grumpy. I get grumpy, too, but I try to be lite and listen to folks with good views. When one gets old, it's a "been there, done that" viewpoint and we forget the naive-freshness of everything. True, one shouldn't be naive, but don't let knowledge/wisdom color your negativity. It's all a balancing act.

It's easy to be negative. It's easy to remember the bad times. It is harder to remember the good times or things done for us. It's human nature. I try to remember both, if I can (and I am not always successful). Likewise, it is easier to spot negative views posted; one rarely posts positive ones IMO. It does happen, but the negative always outweghs the positive, this is even true on the nightly news. Always the crime and doom but rarely the saved puppies and babies returning cash that skipped out of armored trucks. Again, people just fixate on it and it is easy to get them emotionally stirred on such subjects. It's rarer to see ones with a balanced viewpoint on a subject.

But like you say, "Live and let live." I enjoy my games. And heck, I have opinions. I just try not to get "down" by reading such posts.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:47PM Space Cobra said

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@Ren54

That's really two words smushed together, but we hear ya!

;P

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:48PM DrRumpy said

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How about the Swindled Consumer?

I'm going to chalk some points in this article up to intentional provocation. I know you can't be so ignorant as to not recognize that a lot of the negative feelings about these games are justifiable. Or, when somebody steals from you do you shrug your shoulders and take it?

Cryptic is a company founded on games that were barely playable at launch. That company's brass lied through their teeth promoting products that could only loosely be called MMOs. Trying to harvest as much cash as possible from excited early adopters, and then when the subscriber base dwindles, now it's time to farm the hardcore fans with a cash shop.

SOE had a game that many people loved in Galaxies. But hubris and arrogance intervened time and again to destroy what admittedly was not everybody's cup o' tea. Now the game is riding off into the sunset and I suspect some players who have sunk thousands of hours and dollars into the game are asking why. Or, if not for repeated terrible decisions, would Galaxies be continuing after the end of the year.

It's hard to accept this "live and let live" attitude from a journalist of an MMO dedicated site. It feels biased and flip to pretend some incredible acts of chicanery were not perpetrated on the user base of some games.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:00PM Lenn said

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@DrRumpy And what about the mouth-frothing hatred some people have towards games that haven't even been released yet? Posting any news about SWTOR or GW2 on this site is pretty much guaranteed to have the troll army crawling from under their bridge. I'm not talking about people who have a negative opinion and are able to express it in a civil way and who don't eschew a constructive discussion. I'm talking about the people who post crap like "fail game is fail" and so on.

In fact, I have observed people here who post negatively on any and every MMO. No kidding. What are they even doing here? If they've become so jaded to hate all MMOs and their developers so very much, why keep coming here when they know it'll only rile them up?
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:23PM Oskari said

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@DrRumpy

This is coming from someone who got burned by a CO lifetime subscription: you will be happier in life if you learn to let the small things go. Holding on to the anger and working at spreading it is not healthy.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 5:52PM mysecretid said

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@DrRumpy

Actually, Cryptic was founded on their first MMORPG, City of Heroes.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2011 9:11PM DrRumpy said

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@Lenn

It's just too easy to disregard deserved criticism as "trolling". I know the people you are taking about, and I agree, they take it too far. Though something needs to be said about the devout supporters who find a silver lining in every single unpopular decision made by a developer.

I no longer play WOW but I don't hate Blizzard for making the game that I don't enjoy anymore. Would I offer critical commentary on the game if asked, absolutely.

Cryptic, on the other hand, took every good feeling I had about CoH and used it to steal my money with Champions. I _loathe_ that company for their theft of my funds and no forgiveness is ensuing. It's not like Cryptic is sorry or even asked to be pardoned.

I could say that STO angers me because I expected so much more from this IP. Now it feels like damaged goods and a game that will never live up to "being" Star Treky, or a real success. I do understand it's come along way towards being playable...excepting ground combat.

Anyone who lived through the Anarchy Online launch or Age of Conan post 20 after launch is more than a little wary of SW.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 2:51PM Haldurson said

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There's a secret is to be both self-aware and tolerant of opposing opinions -- I may love a game, and you may hate it. Nothing I say is going to convince you that you are wrong and nothing you can say will convince me that I'm wrong. The reason is that there's no right or wrong to likes and dislikes.

Studies have shown that people make decisions based on emotion, and then choose the facts to fit those decisions. Very rarely to people actually make decisions based on 'facts'. Most of us are not totally rational beings in that respect. For that reason alone, it's generally counter-productive to try to convince someone else that they are wrong. The more you try to counter arguments with 'facts', the more steadfast the average person becomes in their opinions. The reason is that both opinions (mine and yours) are not actually based on facts, no matter what you tell yourself. They are based on a purely visceral and personal experience. First you like or dislike something -- only then do you try to rationalize why, and not the other way around. Arguments and facts are totally beside the point.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:08PM Borick said

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@Haldurson Is rational thought and rational discourse the end-all, be-all of human interaction?

It isn't a secret that humans are not rational actors, and although it may confound the modern rationalist, Poetics, rhetoric and oratory win more arguments with the body politic than can any fact-based dialogue.

And yet for all of this irrational behavior, the commons is yet capable of filtering the noise and making a true assesment of value.

It is a mistake to believe that rational dialogue is inclusive of truth or wisdom.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 4:01PM Haldurson said

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@Borick
What I'm trying to say is that it is counterproductive to attempt to convince someone with steadfast beliefs that their beliefs are wrong, no matter how rational the argument. I'm not claiming that there is no value in discussion. If one's opinion is not strongly held (ie. there are no strong emotions involved) then there may be room for movement. The trouble comes from deeply held convictions. It's one of the reasons why it's so difficult to actually HAVE a rational discussion about religion or politics between people with opposing opinions.

Nearly no one with very strong opinions has come upon those convictions entirely rationally, no matter how rational they seem to be -- in fact, I'd be willing to bet that someone's opinion of another's rationality would consequently be based on how much they agree with those opinions, and not on the actual rationality of the individual. A totally rational person would either have to be undecided, or would have to be swayed only by facts, and consequently their opinions would be fluid, as they receive more information. It's very rare to find someone who is genuinely like that.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 4:13PM j1083 said

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@Haldurson I'm pretty sure it's difficult to even have a rational argument because there's not a lot in the discussion of enjoyment or non enjoyment of video games that doesn't depend on opinions and personal, visceral experience.

"I like this" and "I don't like this" aren't rational or empirically factual points to debate.
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Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:05PM donweel said

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Very good article. I heard recently that a study was done on test subjects and that there is some sort of biochemical response to feeling you are right about something. It produces a sort of high. I would say these people you mention are some sort of addict.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:18PM madcartoonist said

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I stopped reading comments for anything Rift related since I had to sift through so many hate filled ones. I don't even care when they are thought out arguments but a lot didn't have any train of thought I could follow. If you fully explain your thoughts without being rude then I can actually take those opinions into consideration because I can then tell if what you want and expect from an MMO is the same as what I want and expect.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:23PM Bramen said

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I fall into the Jilted lover category with Square-Enix.

SquareSoft was my favorite developer when I was a kid. Now they strike me as raciest. They force you to use 3rd party sites in order to pay for your monthly sub. If you want to buy direct time from them you have to buy Crysta, which they don't sell in increments that are equal to monthly subs. You have to buy more of coarse. In effect it raises the price of the sub. Unless of coarse you are Japanese, in which case you can pick out exactly how much Crysta you need and just pay for that. Further evidence of their bias would be the releases of their past FF games. Some games where not released in the United States because they felt that the American audience were not smart enough to want to play them.

Anyway I will stop my rant. I enjoyed FFXI for years and FFXIV for seconds. I shouldn't complain to much.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2011 3:36PM Fakeassname said

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@Bramen

coarse/kôrs/Adjective
1. Rough or loose in texture or grain.
2. Made of large grains or particles: "dry, coarse sand".

course (kôrs, krs) n.
1.Onward movement in a particular direction; progress / Movement in time.
2. The direction of continuing movement.
3. The route or path taken by something, such as a stream, that moves.
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