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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 2:48PM Angn said

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Art imitates life. The RP "community" will never let go of hang-ups based on real mores and prejudices. Sex is the social Final Frontier.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 3:51PM Equillian said

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@Angn

"...Sex is the social Final Frontier."

maybe for those that dont get any. I find it a more fulfilling fantasy to be a massive Hammer-Weilding Warrior Priest, Infused with the Holy Light.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 2:56PM Meagen said

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Making your character brutally kill hundreds of animals/sentient beings/humans: a-okay, no bad feelings at all, only a game.

All female characters have perfect bodies and skimpy outfits: it's just a game, why so serious, etc.

Reading a single /emote describing body parts, or seeing two characters with armor unequipped in a quiet corner: EW EW BURN IT WITH FIRE WHERE'S THE BRAIN BLEACH

Posted: Aug 18th 2011 10:48PM Najwalaylah said

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@Meagen You have perfectly described the silliness of the wildly varying attitudes and manufactured outrage surrounding this (non)-issue.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 3:12PM Palebane said

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From my experience, many people who have no interest in role-playing think that this is largely the only kind of role-playing that goes on. It's really no wonder so many people are freaked out by the mere mention of the word. Funny thing is, to a large extent, I agree with them. ERP is one of the only legitimate forms of role-playing left in the modern era of Online RPGs, in my opinion. It's arguably the most largely accepted and participated in form.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 3:27PM Equillian said

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@Palebane

I don't agree with this at all. As a guild leader of many RP guilds, I've had to deal with this constantly over the years. Those that hate ERP are zealous about it and how it corrupts the RP community. Those that love ERP think that it's this magical "only true form" of RP.

What I can tell you for a fact is this: ERP Creates unwanted drama for those around you. Scorned lovers, even roleplaying will show up at all times making fools of themselves, /yelling about your guild, demanding that the guild leadership kicks someone, or just starts badmouthing the guild in general.

Ya, I think ERP is weird - but real or roleplay matters of the heart (or in this case matters of the crotch) do not simply affect those two individuals, in the alley, with no gear on.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:10PM awitelintsta said

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@Equillian - "ERP Creates unwanted drama for those around you."

This. A million times this. It should not be given a casual pass for this reason. I'm not 100% against ERP, but you have to be super careful whom you're doing it with, and that you both have a strong OOC understanding of where the boundaries and expectations are.

Otherwise, the drama llama will follow you home. Every single time.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:20PM Irem said

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@Palebane
Eh, it may be the most participated in form of roleplay, but I don't think its popularity reflects on other types of RP; there are players who don't consider themselves RPers generally who do it independent of any kind of persistent character background or story, which skews things. And the fact that it -can- be done without really paying attention to or caring about the lore, the world, or characterization makes it hard for me to give it much credit as being a last bastion of legit RP or anything. I've done it, I like it, and I'll defend it (and I'll be the first to complain about modern MMOs doing little to nothing to support RP interaction between players), but I mostly find it depressing that the type of RP that has cockroach-like survivability is the one that (typically) requires the least investment in actual character and story development.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 3:16PM Ergonomic Cat said

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Two comments:

1. Yar yar, hump hump.

2. In the days of MUSHes, this was much less of an issue. Many people's info contained statements like "consensual combat, light romance ok." It helped that you could create locked private spaces I'm sure, but it wasn't so crazy or taboo (and thus was less of a thing).

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 8:06PM Space Cobra said

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@Ergonomic Cat

It's unfortunately like anything; the more people you get involved in something, the more differing views will arise. This is true for the birth of filmmaking and even MMOs nowadays.

If people were more balanced/accepting on the whole, maybe this wouldn't be a problem, but this is the situation as it is now and really, these are corporations running these games, not privately coded MUSHes run by students.

I understand both sides and I've always tried to be mature about it, but it does make me sad that even if it is true, I will hear complaints over and over again and it will be used as a reason to bring pitchforks and firebrands to such attitudes and players.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:01PM Irem said

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I've long thought that there's a problem with the "ERP" term itself, because it gets applied across the board to everything from straight-up cyber to mature themes in mainstream RP to outright fantasy that has little to do with the game world. As RPers we really don't make a distinction between the kind of stuff you can find in an R-rated movie (which can get pretty explicit) and what you'd see in an X-rated one. If it's related to sex, it's ERP, period--and that makes the topic even more awkward to navigate.

If everyone who did it handled it maturely, I think it'd be hard to blink an eye at (of the two WoW RP servers I played on, one was very accepting of ERP, but on the other you might end up publicly shamed if it was discovered that you did it; the former had a much more responsible and mature group of ERPers and frequent open discussion of the subject). Unfortunately, it does tend to attract people who have no concept of social boundaries, and those are the ones you see doing it in public channels with bizarre, explicit descriptions in their FlagRSPs, calling other people prudish for not wanting to hear about their character's seven extra lore-breaking demon appendages. You never hear about the responsible ERPers, because, well...part of being responsible about it is realizing that TMI about your characters' sex lives and going on and on about how you're suuuper edgy and naughty for acting them out is pretty gross and results less in fainting and pearl clutching from the repressed masses than it does contact embarrassment from people who wish you'd shut up.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:05PM awitelintsta said

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A sexual component of a relationship between two consenting adult characters is completely reasonable, so long as these characters are also being played by two adults who are mature enough to know that what is in-character stays in-character.

The problems always occur when one of those qualifiers is disrupted.

I've been a roleplaying guild leader for the last three years and I've repeatedly seen the following situations:

- One of the adults is, in real life, played by a freshman in high school... or even younger. Squicky as all get out, and not fun to explain to angry parents!
- Folks that use ERP as a substitute for the real thing, mixing their IC and OOC feelings up. This can have results ranging from harmless heartbreak to destroyed marriages.
- Weird, stalkerish things where one party starts expecting far more out of their ERP partner than was talked about or agreed upon. It's a whole lot more complicated than just blocking someone in a close roleplay community if things go badly.

True anecdotal story: In Aion, I played a male character. Within the first week of play, someone's female character started hitting on him. She wasn't his type, and I had my character state so, and me and the person playing her had a good laugh conversation over roleplay relationships.

Two days later, the same person shows up... with another character, whose physical and psychological description is exactly what I described my character's type as being like. And she started pursuing.

Creeptastic.

I told her to back off. She quit the game.

I feel like there should be a Futurama-style "Don't Date Robots!" warning here at the end, but you get the idea. :)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:22PM Irem said

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@awitelintsta
All of this. And I wish I could say that yours is the only story I've heard like that, but man, there are some people who WILL not take no for an answer.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 4:44PM sjet said

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It's not about sex, or people actually somehow being sexually pleased by an mmo environment. It's about two ways to approach role-playing, either limiting yourself to a fantasy, kids friendly zone... or to approach it as an adventure that is nothing like real life, but is genuine to the characters nature. Let it be sex-maniac elves, whip-using orcs, or threesome gibberlings, doesn't matter. Granted, it's not all about sex, but sex is a genuine aspect of a role-playing approach - it's as genuine as in-game marriage, crime, murder, rape etc etc...
But ofc like much else, ERP too has weird people that practice it, and we could all do fine without their screwd-up brains.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 5:01PM Borick said

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I don't understand being squeamish about sex. Is this the 1950's? The 'sexual revolution' is THREE GENERATIONS IN THE PAST.

Human beings will explore sex with every tool of communication they are given. What is so odd about this?

Ancient cultures were much more practical regarding sex.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 6:33PM Irem said

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@Borick
Because most MMOs have Teen ratings, and Terms of Service that usually forbid sexually explicit speech, they're still sort of seen as kiddie pools. As Meagan pointed out above, though, there's a lot of stuff in online games that's arguably inappropriate for kids, and near-naked women or sexual -humor- seems to be considered acceptable...it's just frank discussion of sexuality that we're still squeamish about.

Exercise in frustration: find any forum thread dedicated to the serious discussion of LGBT characters/same-sex ingame marriage in MMOs, and count the number of people who argue that the mere mention of gay people existing is too heavy and sexualized for children--who are suddenly the target audience due to the T rating--to handle.
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2011 8:49AM PacketBurner said

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I believe there is an MMO that caters for this directly (no i haven't played it or i would offer up the name) but as some above has said it would be unwise to reach out of their target audience aka tweens and worse to risk the negative PR of two underages having it away cybering whilst the games logo anywhere in sight... christian states would eat them alive / ban the game etc

Irem thats very much a shame and surely "gays" as you put it should be accepted by now? or am i in a bubble of acceptance here in the uk? SwTor should cover this no? ME always did.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2011 1:50PM Irem said

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@PacketBurner
There is an MMO that caters to ERP, and Second Life has a really big ERP community. I don't think any of us can ever expect a mainstream MMO to cater to it or acknowledge it, and I wouldn't really want them to. FFXIV has a ton of references to sex, from prostitutes actually propositioning your character (regardless of gender) to bawdy humor, but it still has a T rating; there's plenty of room for nods to the fact that adults play MMOs without needing to totally shut out younger players. What anyone does in private chat channels is their own business, but just like in real life, if I want details on what someone else is getting up to, there are websites for that. :P

ME doesn't, really. Bioware is one of the more progressive game companies out there when it comes to same-sex relationships between characters, but that's not saying a whole lot. The Dragon Age team is much better about it, but the ME team is only now, as of ME3, planning to add a same-sex romance that's actually, admittedly gay (they went out of their way to make the Liara/FShep romance technically not homosexual by saying that asari aren't -really- women--it was their justification for not going through with planned gay options for MShep).

I would hope that TOR would cover it, but from what I've been hearing there are no same-sex romance options. With Bioware it really depends on which team you get and whether or not they're working on a game that they feel okay taking risks with, unfortunately.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2011 4:48PM jh3141 said

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@Irem "There is an MMO that caters to ERP"

Care to name it? I looked for a while a year or so ago, but all I could find were press releases about games that apparently never launched and second-life-like virtual worlds designed specifically for the purpose. Nothing that I would actually consider an MMO, though, because the gameplay aspects were lacking in all cases.
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