| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (120)

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 1:47PM Pingles said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
What drives me crazy about Gold-selling is how many people make excuses for doing it. Just make your own Gold, you lazy bum!

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 1:52PM Crestfallen said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Ren54

Yeah, regardless of whether you like Rift or not it's very difficult not to have a great deal of respect for Hartsman. I love that he just speaks the truth, and usually spices it up with a little humor.

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 1:53PM Nautius said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
When you buy gold, it is from hacked accounts and therefor making the purchaser of said gold and accessory to the crime.

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 6:17PM Irem said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@real65rcncom
No, that's pretty much spot-on. If you're buying gold, you're encouraging account theft, because that's where most RMT currency comes from these days. People used to be able to claim that it was a "victimless crime" because hey, the farmers were just playing the game, just like us, right? That's not the case any more (if it ever was). With anti-RMT measures in place, the quickest and easiest way for sellers to get currency is to hack accounts, and the only way to truly wipe them out is to eliminate demand. If you've bought currency from a third party and you have a friend who lost everything on their account to hackers, keep in mind when you offer your condolences that you're perpetuating the problem.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 6:45PM Borick said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@Nautius

Prove that the gold I purchase is derived from a hacked account.

Do it in a court of law.

Otherwise... well, I can't say what I feel without violating the posting rules.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 7:53PM Space Cobra said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Nautius

and really, in certain places, it makes a really handy way to launder money without any oversight.

http://www.icc-ccs.org/news/144-virtual-money-laundering-threat-identified

Mind you, this includes totally virtual currencies, which is a new trend that is not connected to any game/mmo but is done for speculative basis.

Money traders trade on ANYTHING.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 9:03PM ErikC said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Borick No reason to prove it. He's not, presumably, actually saying you actually are in danger of being arrested. In all likelihood any gold you have bought was gained via stolen accounts and/or credit card fraud. While it can't be proved, it's certainly far more likely to be true than not, and that's reason enough for you not to do it.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 9:09PM ErikC said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Borick That said, I agree with some of your other posts that it would probably make much more sense if gold farming and selling was permitted. I doubt this would do much to damped the fraud, though, without any support from the legal system. The fastest way to get stuff would still be to steal accounts and sell their gold/farm with them, or to steal credit cards to buy copies of the game with.
Reply

Posted: Jul 22nd 2011 12:23AM Borick said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@ErikC In the U.S. it's not fear of arrest, but of being deprived of property without trial. That's a big no-no.

Of course I understand that we sign away any claim to ownership of the fruit of our labor in these online games. I see it as a problem akin to 'taxation without representation', but it is what it is.

For now.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:00PM enamelizer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
What is crazy is that they have made gold in Rift nearly completely worthless, yet there are still tons of bots spamming.

Who is buying gold and what are they spending it on?!

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 6:09PM real65rcncom said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@enamelizer

People who want to get easy T1 type crafted gear so they can skip right to T2 instead of plaque farming for a month.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:01PM Rialle said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Just as I've been saying for years: If you buy gold, you are supporting credit card fraud, trashing of the game economy, and the compromising of player accounts.

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 5:32PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Rialle

not so much supporting it as risking it, I mean you are giving your credit card number and info to some one of questionable ethics =P
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:02PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Calling out the real world impact to paying players -- financial penalties via credit card companies -- should put a nail in the coffin of 'gold selling' being a victimless crime.

From a fraud perspective, its very clever -- virtual world currencies are very low down the totem pole of FBI, RCMP, MI5, etc's priorities. You're not going to get alot of traction with this type of fraud across international borders. So the best defense is a good offense.

My guild has a policy of gold-buying = permaban from membership.

Nice to see Hartsman thinking about the MMO community, and now just what his company is doing.

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 3:50PM Borick said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@(Unverified) I daresay that most anyone who was in a competitive raiding guild in the last ten years has bought gold, sold gold, sold a raid spot or some sort of raid gear for RL money, or received stolen goods.

The last thing that game companies need is more intrusion and oversight in RL transactions.
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:02PM PrimeSynergy said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This is of course easier said than done, but I feel like companies should invest more time and money into stopping these things. A lot of what I seem to see is, "well we have GMs on at all hours and we insta-ban gold farmers" etc. Well obviously that isn't really enough at this point, but like I said, solving this problem is A LOT easier said than done. I just hope someone decides to put some serious time and resources into it.

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:30PM aurickle said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@PrimeSynergy
And how do you propose the companies do that? At least, without putting draconian restrictions on transfer of money and items in-game?
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:07PM j1083 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Could someone please explain to me what turn of events results in a studio paying fraud fines for player actions?

I'm not saying it can't possibly happen, that turn of events just makes no sense to me. How is the developer at fault?

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:38PM Space Cobra said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@j1083

Basically what happens, the Credit Card in question, gets dinged/stolen. When the card owner realizes this, they cancel their card.

The Merchant that processed the transaction (the game company/game developer) has lost that potential money. (Say that $500 was charged, it has now lost it. Gone. Potential profit has been diminished for the game studio/merchant.) In addition, the banks(s) being greedy bastards, have to fine someone. Generally, they don't fine you, but they will fine the merchant. Their logic is, "You were stupid enough to accept this transaction, so you have to pay." (Again, reminding you if you want a loan from your bank, you have to reassure them you have enough money and sign over your first born-child).

So, they ding/penalize the merchant for each transaction he accepted "out of good faith". Multiply that a few times and it gets pricey.

The same is true for brick-n-mortar stores, small and large. Some stores asks to see a driver's license for verification, some don't and with some cards, you don't need to show, but even with such rules in place that don't overburden customers, banks still play this "blame game" and serve a fine.

Same thing with bounced checks. You are fined, by the bank, for trying to submit a check without funds in your account, however, the bank ALSO fines the merchant for accepting the check. I know small merchants who know you will ask you to pay their fine that they got dinged with; so you have to pay the fine twice (this was when I was a starving college student). If that person wrote a bounced check and never showed up, merchant still has to pay the fine (and is out the money for his goods).
Reply

Posted: Jul 21st 2011 2:41PM tonyn84 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@j1083 The only thing I can think of is if it has to do with hacked accounts/passwords. In order to accept credit card payments you are supposed to prove that you can protect the information and in this case, they fail to do so, probably breaking some contract they had with them.
Reply

Featured Stories

Make My MMO: November 16 - 22, 2014

Posted on Nov 22nd 2014 8:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW