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Reader Comments (16)

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 1:17PM DeadlyAccurate said

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I'm a huge fan of Big Fish Games. I even have a plush Fish on my desk. I still have something like 11 game credits to use up. Each game lasts around five hours, give or take, and it's a relaxing way to while away time in waiting rooms.

I don't know I'd ever get into iPad MMOs, but then again, there was a time I thought I'd never play MMOs at all.

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 1:56PM antagonistyahoocom said

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Yeah, lets foist the MMO upon our favorite puzzle games!

Bravo Beau. Another brilliant article.

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:01PM Joshua Przygocki said

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Myst Online: Uru Live.

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:03PM Beau Hindman said

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@Joshua Przygocki I was actually going to mention that, but didn't the puzzles in it were not only solved in a really different way, but they were MUCH harder than these. Also, the game is barely alive from my experience (have had an account since it was in beta hehe) so I just left it out.

It is a good one, though, but players walk around the "puzzles" (ages) solving them by physically twisting knobs, etc. For those who might not know. It is currently free, too.
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:12PM Joshua Przygocki said

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@Beau Hindman Well if that is too hard I suppose Waldo could go global.
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:38PM Beau Hindman said

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@Joshua Przygocki Bra: Waldo is UNIVERSAL! hehe

Beau
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:57PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Beau Hindman

Actually, he's not nearly universal. Now Wally, he's everywhere but North America. ;P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where%27s_Wally%3F
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 4:57PM HiroProtagonist7 said

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Come on... really? MMO?

Slots to put a 2d avatar in and chat? In a 2d picture of a town?
A MMORPG based around puzzles would be cool, but how many people can solve a 2d puzzle together at one time?

Madden NFL 11 allows you to play 6 players online, manage your team makeup, clothing style, equipment and pimp out your bedroom. It has top of the line physics, lobby (town) and voice chat.

Which game is closer to a MMO?

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 5:03PM HiroProtagonist7 said

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@HiroProtagonist7

I'm sorry to be so negative, but this right here is what is diluting the genera MMORPG. If the box says MMORPG you have no clue what you're buying

I think we can all agree that MMORPG used to mean Virtual World - Ultima, Everquest, Everquest 2, SWG, WoW, Anarchy Online - those are MMOs.

Marketing and journalism have stretched that definition this far now - 2d slots and chat.
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 5:10PM Beau Hindman said

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@HiroProtagonist7 The point is that 2-D does not mean that it cannot be an MMORPG. MUDs were just text, yet we still classify them as MMOs.

Journalism and marketing haven't stretched that definition...the players have by purchasing and playing in games that are actually MMOs. I showed how persistence can be maintained, and how numbers of people can get together. Don't take my examples so literally...take out "20 people" and replace it with "200"...whatever suits you. If you start defining MMOs by only a massive open world then you will end up having to cut out almost every game that features instancing, phasing or anything like that. After all, you pass through server lines all the time -- that could be argued as an instance. Raiding with 5 people would be out, especially since most game time for some players would be spent in there. Heck, I could take that argument to basically blow away any game that is not non-instanced, open trade, and open housing with REAL doors. lol

I hear what you mean, but trust me I am not trying to pass off 5 people getting together to poke at puzzles as an MMO, and I think I showed that easily.

Beau
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 5:52PM HiroProtagonist7 said

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@Beau Hindman

I do enjoy your writing Beau and this wasn't meant as a personal attack on that or you.

A lot of people on this site disagree with me, but I think there are plenty more people yearning for Virtual Worlds than the staff there gives credit. Personally I see stretching the term to include these type of games as re-defining the market, not the other way around.

You have to write the article before people read it and then you attract people that like your article. As Massively expands the terminology it grows its reader base as individuals that like the content join the community.

True Virtual Worlds, like you're talking about combined with what I'm talking about (you have some awesome ideas), are down to about 5% of the content here now. It logically follows (I think) then that only 5% of the readership is here specifically for Virtual World content. Among all the new voices coming in after searching for iPhone Game or Puzzle Game and the console generation who were born into games and have never seen a real virtual world we sound like a very, very small minority.

A segment or market has to be defined to get funding. The term MMORPG has been undefined or fuzzed out so much that Virtual World fans are a very small minority on a site about MMORPGs. I've seen people debate Farmville vs WoW (I'm not a WoW fan, but recognize it's impact on the genera)

Personally, I think to have chance of getting AAA virtual worlds built we almost need to distance the market from the term MMORPG at this point. I mentioned that virtual world fans were a minority on an MMO site...

I guess what I'm saying is we all like other games so you'll always have people just enjoying talking about them. You guys are the creators, we are the denizens/visitors. I think the 'everybody likes and buys' factor is more a case of 'If you build it they will come'
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 6:10PM Beau Hindman said

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@HiroProtagonist7 First of all, no offense taken...I didn't even notice anything offensive! :)

Second, it seems like you are saying that this site is helping further this "fuzzy" image of virtual worlds...and yes, I understand what you mean by virtual worlds. I have been a champion of true virtual worlds like Wurm Online, Vanguard or The Chronicles of Spellborn and many others...just check my writing.

What I don't get -- and please correct me if I am wrong -- is how you would think that the site supports this "fuzzy" view of the meaning. Just look at our top stories from week to week...look at the most popular columns with the most comments. None of them are about anything BUT true, open worlds.

Remember, my columns are supposed to explore meanings and sub-sections of the MMO universe. That's my thang...my shtick. Some people are the "hardcores" and some are the "roleplayers." I am the guy who presents the weird stuff, but I in no way represent the entire site.

Again, sorry if you think that MMOs are leaving true worlds behind (and they are in many cases, some people just don't care about the same thing as before) but it doesn't take but a quck glance of our site to see that, as a whole, these weird lil games are not the norm. That's why I like them. :)


Beau
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 7:33PM HiroProtagonist7 said

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@Beau Hindman
I get where you're coming from too. I don't think we agree on the whole art imitating life vs life imitating art thing, but that's cool.

I just feel like the industry was headed one way - towards immersive old school D&D and then on to VR and the Metaverse - and somehow it got latched onto a massive freight train heading the opposite direction. I wish someone with Sony or Blizzard money would take a look at what they're trying to do in Xsyon and conceptually in Wurm. Building a wall is pretty persistent.

I think ultimately Google Earth will become the metaverse. They've got all the data and services they need to skin it and zillions of people making buildings and 3d props via sketchup.

I do agree there are some cool happenings in the mobile realm though. I've been following the Augmented Reality stuff pretty excitedly. Some of the games have been pretty cool too.
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 7:38PM Beau Hindman said

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@HiroProtagonist7 Dude. In about 10 years we will all be carrying around iPad sized devices that will do everything we need...including playing truly awesome looking and immersive games. Right now, the tech is changing so so are the games.

Can you imagine 10 years from now? You're probably right about the Google earth thing. So maybe the immersive, truly open worlds will return when technology has been able to catch back up. I think a lot of people went social/cheap/Facebook style gaming because it was easy to run. Well, the devices will make better and bigger games possible once again, but without massive price tags. Here's hoping!

Beau
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Posted: Jul 19th 2011 11:50PM Graill440 said

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I like hidden object puzzle games that are well made, but for the smaller screens among some of the thousands of hanhelds wouldnt good resolution and a magnifying glass be points of interest? (Grin)

Posted: Jul 20th 2011 6:54AM unfalsified said

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"If you take some time and search through Apple's app store (as horrible as its search function is)," ~ Seriously, I've even given feedback to iTunes asking them to sort out that hopeless SEARCH(f) they use!!

I think given MMObility is such an exciting new area for mmos, it's interesting to see if anyone can come up with new concepts and innovations to fit the platforms restrictions (eg hardware, screen real-estate, touch controls, battery, momentary gameplay etc) with it's opportunities (eg play anywhere, load up fast, in combination with other platforms, smaller gaming time therefore simpler designs, emerging markets etc).

As for "real mmorpgs" they do exist in 2-D eg OUTER EMPIRES is actually if you can get past the simple graphics is very cool sandbox EvE style game on the iOS and browser:

http://outer-empires.com/

http://wiki.outer-empires.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

I'm having a blast playing it atm. : )

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