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Reader Comments (27)

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:12AM Danteeeee said

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22th? Good job, educational system.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:26AM Barinthos said

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@Danteeeee

That's one of my biggest pet peeves.

How the hell do you even pronounce it? Twenty Secoth? Twenty Tooth?
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:25AM DevilSei said

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Eh, its the same kind of elitism you'll see anywhere, and ultimately that is whats most disappointing. When World of Warcraft launched achievements, I saw guilds throwing around "Requires X000 points to join", or raid groups that use an achievement as a gate to get in.
Just because you have X amount of achievement points, or Y achievement however, doesn't say anything about you. You could of been dead 99% of the time in that raid and you'd still grab the achievement, so what does that really even say?

Now I can understand wanting someone to have some experience with the zone, like you said, and that is actually fine and dandy with me to just have a preference for people who do have it, but are willing to take those who haven't had said experience.
But when you start requiring 100+ of some item people can most likely buy, it just pisses me off. Why? After 100 runs, I really doubt anyone is actually going to need anything in Underworld, that's likely more than enough to get your Obsidian armor, a fair chance of getting the minis, and whatever else is down there.

Posted: Jul 19th 2011 12:39AM kasapina said

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GW dungeons differ from WoW in that many players repeat them without actually needing them. I did DoA speedruns (a 40-50 minute dungeon with 70-80k payout per run) for half a year, and I had more money than I'd ever need by the end of the first few months. Several older guild members were swimming in money, and the only thing they did with them was stack ectos or DoA gems. Yet they kept doing it because it was fun. They did Underworld too, even though the rewards from it are like pocket change compared to the guild's main vocation. The point I am trying to make is that the most experienced players in UW, the ones that require a lot of stones, do so just because they like doing clean, fast, silent runs. I understand them - one can only train a single, or perhaps a duo of newbies in an 8-man group, and that is with voice chat. Otherwise, the run strays from the organized atmosphere a veteran with hundreds of runs is looking for. And due to stone buyers and random people who refuse to learn even after dozens of visits to the dungeon, even 150 stone groups often feature fabulous examples of "expertise" spread out among multiple party members.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:35AM awitelintsta said

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I'm curious, how do they expect someone to get to 100 stones if they don't already have them? Since apparently random groups are out of the question, I guess it leaves it up to the player to join a guild that is particularly organized to do runs all the time or something? Of course, those guilds probably don't want the under-stoned, either. It could take you quite a long time to accumulate them in a casual guild setting.

The Guild Wars community can be pretty bad about keeping people "out" of things for arbitrary reasons like not using the exact "right", commonly expected build. This stone thing doesn't surprise me. Don't get me wrong, I heart the community, and have been a part of it for six years, but damn does the elitism drive me crazy.

Then again, there are still folks that run through the three normal mode campaigns with the same Elementalist fire build and think they're pretty awesome. So maybe a little bit of gate-keeping is necessary. :)

Still, I miss ye olden days when my very first character - an N/Mo - made it through the bulk of Prophecies as a healer because there was such a dearth of them. I'd be laughed out of even The Great Northern Wall for it now.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 11:01AM alinos said

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@awitelintsta

Ever try to play HA back then when everyone was must have Emote for rank X or higher.

which basically made it an extremely tedious task to get their
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 11:20AM awitelintsta said

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@alinos

I never tried to play HA outside of a guild group for exactly that reason. The only PvP I do is RA, or JQ, mostly because they can't kick me out of a group for not being super special awesome enough.

I'm sure in some cases my lack of the Perfect Build (tm) is totally the reason why the team loses... but more often than not, I doubt it.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:13PM Irem said

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@awitelintsta
"I'm curious, how do they expect someone to get to 100 stones if they don't already have them?"

I doubt they do, or that they have any interest in whether or not a newer player can gather that many. In fact, it could easily be a way of saying, "We don't want you along if you haven't played for so many years that you've gotten more of these things than you could ever use." Newbie-disdain is shortsighted and bad for a game's community growth, but it's unfortunately common.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:15PM DevilSei said

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@awitelintsta

Aye, more often than not a perfect build isn't going to work well, specially if the person using it has no clue how to use it. They work well for Heroes though because they have a defined set of actions, which makes optimum builds for them rather simple because we know how they'll react.

Hell, my first journey through Underworld was a 7-group party with most of us newbies to the whole thing (me included). My bar consisted of a few basic axe attacks, a couple skills I threw in for defense, and Ursan's Blessing. Why that? Because I loved going bear. We actually finished everything up to the final quest, the 4 Horsemen, but lost because... well 7 players isn't exactly a good choice going into an area.

A build you know how to use will trump a build you don't, it may not be optimum, but its better to be 100% with yours, instead of 40-50% as you stumble through everything.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:41AM belgeode said

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I've never been a fan of elitism in any form really. As I am still on my first month of playing GW1, I doubt I will be getting invited to groups like this. Suits me just fine, since I am enjoying the heck out of the heroes and henchmen system LOL. (Would that make me an elitist, if you are not an NPC, you cannot join my group?) Right now my goal is to get all my characters to level 20, so I can buy the mercenary pack and.... wait for it.... "play with myself". LOL. But hey, if you don't mind a noobie tagging along, and you see me in Elona, give me a holla! I am always up for more xp.

I have to admit I was a bit taken aback by wintersday. I had no idea it existed, so imagine my surprise when I killed a fanged iboga in the Plains of Jarin, and have it drop EGGNOG as a loot item! I just about died laughing. A few more visits to Kamadan confirmed, ok there is something funky going on, and it smells of xmas.

Now I am curious... what other celebratory events are there in GW1? What have I missed out on all these years?

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:47AM DevilSei said

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@belgeode
List of events for ya
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Special_event

The events are good, but it tends to be the player-driven things during said events that really make them shine.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 11:17AM jheryn said

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I have to agree about the elitism in the GW community. How do these people expect others who have never experienced The Underworld, to obtain these summoning stones if they are unwilling to take them to the UW to get them?

I am perfectly fine with groups wanting to have particular builds or their equivalents. Builds are much easier to put together and they present a chance of success in the UW. What I am not OK with is that just because you do not have "X" numbers of a particular item, you are deemed "less than." How elitist and and short sighted.

When I first started playing 4 years ago, a 20th level player let my 18th level Monk join his group. He was helpful in telling me what a good build would be for my character and even gave me a great green weapon that is still to this day a sought after item. He was just a great guy willing to help a new player out. I have taken that approach myself and am willing to help (if able) whenever a new player asks for assistance.

Maybe if those elitist players would be willing to help out a little bit, they would find it simpler to get PUG groups with greater ease. I say, help others get experience and you will find it easier to build PUGS. If you are not willing, then I guess you must enjoy spamming for players to fit your "requirements."

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 11:30AM augustgrace said

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This extreme elitism started in the pvp part of the game and then spilled over to pve. These requirements are absurd attempts to escape a "defeat", that these players clearly don't have the emotional maturity to handle. The problem is some people aren't here to play a game and have fun, but rather to "win".
I would much rather keep company with "noobs" and help others learn the game, than try to secure favor with people who take a game so seriously.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:20PM Foobar1923 said

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I have to completely agree with the absurdness of needing 150+ of those stones to even be considered for a SC group. Just like everyone else has said already, how do you expect someone who is newer to that aspect of the game, like me, to get into a group and learn the SC system if I need to do the UW 150+ times first?

Just like in WoW, with the "You need to have a gear score of 7000 or higher to get into this pug raid", its stupid. I can understand 20-30 times, because I think after that many runs, you MIGHT know what your doing :D

I know I will never be getting into a SC run with a requirement that high, which is fine. I will just poke around in MVOP or Hero it and prolly have more fun learning the ropes myself than getting into a group of elitists who will just bitch at you every mistake you make.

I do see practice groups forming, occasionally, which is a good thing, for casual players, like myself, so that is a plus.

All in all, every game is going to have some form of this elitism, whether it is "you have to have run this X000 times" or "you must have this level of gear" to get into their groups, which is fine for them. They will find people who have those req's and be fine. I think its absurd, but thats just my opinion.

Be more lenient and considerate to people who DONT play GW 20hrs a day, who knows, you might find someone who will turn out to be a good friend or co-player(is that a word?).

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:32PM alzeer said

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generally elitism is bad
but little elitism is required sometimes like the following incident
in other MMO a guy was complaining how the community are all elitists...etc because he was kicked from every PUG he joined
when i checked him , he didnt wear anything with states that related to his class, he might as well went naked
much better gear would have been dirt cheap to get.
and he was at max level so being noob is not excuse

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:57PM Lenn said

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@alzeer Getting to max level in a lot of MMOs is dead simple. Having the "right" gear makes the process easier, but anyone could do it, even without. So, you DO get "noobs" running around at max level.

I'm curious, did you give the guy advice? Because that's what usually separates the elitists from the rest, you know, the sane people. The former prefer to wipe their butts with you because you don't have the "right" gear, while the latter are honestly trying to help someone become "better".
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:57PM Issmir said

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@alzeer
I think he might have done better if people had allowed him to tag along on various runs and explained to him what was going on though. Kicking him without explaining what he should be doing strikes me as inexcusable.

Let me put it this way; a guy managed to get to max level without once having someone explain the importance of stats to him or help him out in a meaningful way.

On the subject of elitism: Spell check, dude. :P
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:38PM alzeer said

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@Lenn
well no i didnt advice him but
other people in chat channel did (some in polite way others no so much) and he said why do i need to buy new gear if i will replace soon, just let me come..ect it went on for while but i felt the guy was just being lazy/cheap

@Issmir reaching highest lvl without knowledge of class can happen
but in this particular incident i felt it was just plain "bought account case"
personally i do help out most of the time but cant keep doing that for every guy that shows up ,sometimes i just want to do xx boss and log-off.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:36PM Irem said

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It's absurd, but it's not a surprising kind of absurd. The same kind of thing happened in WoW's WotLK with groups demanding hard-to-obtain achievements or very high gearscore ratings, but you'd see people asking for that stuff that didn't even have it themselves, or know what it meant. I'm not even sure how 150+ stones could have gotten to be the norm, but it's possible that one group started asking for that regularly, players saw it repeatedly and just assumed it was the going rate, and the rest is history.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:21PM awitelintsta said

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I doubt they do too; the question was meant to highlight the absurdity of such a stance. It's truly sad, honestly, because Guild Wars is attracting so many newly interested eyes and returning players due to the sequel, and there's people creating this artificial ceiling on what they can participate in. What ambassadors they are. >eyeroll
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