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Reader Comments (47)

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 7:51PM Ably said

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EVE is simply not demanding enough mechanically and gets too boring fast. There is no rush in playing the game, it's just an entire slugfest whatever you do.

That's the prime issue CCP should tackle, instead of nice turret animations and walking in stations.

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 7:53PM (Unverified) said

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mattward, you illustrated Brendan's point nicely.

What were your goals when you started? Without them, the game falls down because there's no one to TELL you what you "should" be shooting for. It's the primary difference between sandbox (you make the goals) and themepark (you're told your goals).

When I started EVE, I set a very ambitious goal for myself: reaching the ISK cap. As I wingman'd myself to 4 accounts, that goal hasn't changed at all. It has become to overarching goal and I have several smaller goals under it, designed to move me toward that overarching goal. So there's never a lack of things to do when I log in.

From your post, it seems you just started playing with a "have fun" type of goal which, while admirable, doesn't define things enough to really qualify as a goal, per se. The casual gamer you describe is best left to themepark systems since they require the least amount of actual forethought. That's not to say all casual gamers wouldn't like EVE though (I have several in my corp who log in maybe 3 or 4 times a week for a maximum of like 10-12 hours (total) who love the game). I don't agree with your "too many ways to make money" assertion either. The essence of sandbox gameplay is freedom. If you find something that someone's willing to pay (and pay dearly) for, that's not a bad thing. I sold a wormhole bookmark for 50 mil. Does that mean the game is broken? To me it means the game is working exactly as it should.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 4:38AM Psychotic Storm said

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@(Unverified)

We don't want casual players, we don't want new blood, we want players that from day one should already know the optimum skills to train and have set up a goal in the hardly explained universe of EVE.

EVE elitism at its full glory.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:10PM kgptzac said

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@Psychotic Storm

Although the mindset you described certainly has a loud enough echo in the eve community to be a problem, I don't think that's what Unverified is saying.

Whether one agree eve has a "learning cliff" or not, by the end of day I think we should agree that Eve is a niche game and there is a reason it is labeled like that. Eve isn't for everyone, but it doesn't mean one shouldn't try out the game before making a decision.
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Posted: Jul 17th 2011 8:44PM Raikulxox said

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@JohnLane Any way to block users posts on this site?

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 10:15PM Jenks said

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@JohnLane

I can't fathom how stupid someone would have to be to type "lolol, lolol"

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 10:20PM Turbana said

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@Raikulxox

There is if you have greasemonkey: http://pastebin.com/iKfSacz1

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 10:24PM Amy said

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I'd just like to plug Eve University as a fantastic corporation to start in.

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 11:15PM DarkWalker said

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I didn't have trouble with EVE's learning curve; the game does have fantastic resources available for players that want to learn how to play and to improve.

I couldn't adapt to EVE's mindset, though. I don't like the idea of losing a ship. When it sank on me that I would always be at risk of losing the ship and equipment I worked hard to get (and, if I did really botch, even take a kind of "XP penalty" to my character), I left the game.

And, since losing the ship on defeat is such a central part of the game, I don't think I will ever return; I only play games when the game assures me I will fully recover from any defeat in a short time (or when I can cheat or abuse savegames to make it so). Even though I think EVE a fantastic game, with lots of concepts I would love to see copied into other games, I simply can't bring myself to play it anymore.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:20AM elliotrock said

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@DarkWalker Interesting, as thats the reason I stopped playing. I enjoying running missions but more so finding the best equipment for my frig, as a causal gamer I would sometimes spend a few days just flying around getting the cheapest equipment. So the lose of a ship added 3-4 days of gaming to get back to that point.

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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 6:40AM Brendan Drain said

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@DarkWalker I think this underscores my point a little further, that the learning curve of EVE is largely in adapting to a new mindset and way of playing MMOs. For some people, it's the tactical combat and lack of twitch-based controls they can't get used to. For others, it can be the idea of losing ships being a core part of the game.

Part of the challenge here is to get people to accept that they are not their ships -- that ships are disposable tools used to get a job done. The trick to it is using only what you can afford to replace several times over and reducing the time and effort it takes to get into a new ship. For PvP, that usually means setting up a fleet of replacement ships that you can chew through or joining a corporation that gives out free replacements for cheap ships lost in PvP. There's a surprisingly large number of corps out there willing to do that, especially for new players who will be primarily using cheap frigates.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 10:10AM DarkWalker said

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@Brendan Drain

This mindset problem is something EVE has, and will always have: the thrill of risking large losses is not for everyone. Some players love it; better for them. On the other hand, I abhor it enough that I'm not willing to try my hand at a game (EVE) I otherwise loved during the trial, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling that.

This basically makes EVE the primary example of the "purples in the bank" mindset / problem (depending on your point of view): given that the really good equipment is hard to come by and easy to lose, players avoid using those items, instead either keeping them in storage or selling them for money. In the case of EVE, this is better exemplified through the old "don't use anything you can't afford to lose" adage.

In my case, at least, this removes most of the thrill from getting new / better gear, sharply dropping my interest in the game. It's also the reason I never played the old Diablo online (apart from testing to see if the Battle.net worked), and used unofficial programs to make backups of my offline characters, so if I lost something important I could get it back.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:52PM Psychotic Storm said

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@Brendan Drain

Maybe the biggest problem EVE has is that the sandcastle you just build is what half the population wants to kick and if you want to have your name on the map you have to kick as many sandcastles as you can.

In the end EVE had a few good elements, but I don't like games were whatever you try to achieve may be another players goal to destroy.
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Posted: Jul 17th 2011 11:48PM (Unverified) said

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@Turbana
I just got greasemonkey, but I am unsure how to make the code you provided work. Do I have to make a document or file with the appropriate extension with the info in it?

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 3:39PM Turbana said

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@(Unverified)

Easiest way I know to install is right click on the monkey icon inside firefox; click new user script; enter any name for it; click ok; then copy paste the code into the notepad window, overwriting everything in there.

You can also add other users to ignore by inserting them into the ignore array:
ignore = ["JohnLane", "OtherTroll", "TheWorld"];
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 2:51AM Transientmind said

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Honestly, this argument ONLY works if you have a wealthy sugar-daddy. That's all there is to it. There is no such thing as the new player striking out on their own in an epic conquest. You join a Corp, be a servile drone to ensure you can actually live up to the creedo of, "if you can't afford to buy two, you shouldn't be flying it." Most of the time this is going to mean mining, hauling, or escorting miners. If you're lucky some uberpowerful player will let you tag along on missions with them.

But if you try to live the fiction presented so glamorously as a selling point you will get ganked, you will get broke.

But I already have a job like that.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 6:47AM Brendan Drain said

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@Transientmind It's really not difficult for a new player to get their hands on ships and equipment for free. I've tested this out before. I got myself and two friends to start new characters with the goal of PvPing in faction warfare. The rules were that we weren't allowed to send ourselves any ISK from our main characters.

One of my friends begged for 500k in the newbie corporation channel, stating that he wanted to buy some ships and head straight into PvP. An older player not only sent him more than 500k, he reccomended a frigate fitting that could be put together with only a few days of skill training and actually did quite well in PvP.

I made my money by dodging my way into low security space in a Condor worth around 50k ISK and looting tech 2 modules from the wrecks of pirate battles as they were happening. I'd warp in, bookmark the wreck, warp out and then warp to the bookmark to land right on top of it. Each module sold for over 500k.

We eventually found a corp that offered free frigates and gave us cruisers once we could fly them. It wasn't too hard, here are tons of corps out there with similar programmes that want nothing more than to get new players into PvP.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:56PM kgptzac said

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@Brendan Drain

Not picking on you or anything but, you have 7 years of knowledge of this game. Do you expect newbies would know all the mechanics in lowsec and all the tricks and traps? Sure, some corps have nice enough ppl to hand you the assets for doing that, but the problem is how new players supposed to know all the "cheap" ways to ninja loot, dodge aggression timers?

It is just not as easy as you make it sound to me.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 5:24AM (Unverified) said

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I have tried Eve many times during the course of the time from when it was released and never have I managed to properly get into some fun PvP. I have joined PvP, nullsec corps and what not but the PvP in Eve is simply not available enough.

The reason is the very high death penalties which lead to people not wanting to lose their "stuff" so when combat occurs it nine times out of ten leads to one side escaping or trying to escape due to being outnumbered. Very, very rarely do you actually have some combat which is close to being evenly matched.

It is either gank or be ganked and that is simply not fun, for me.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 6:34AM (Unverified) said

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There is talk about goals in the game, can someone please tell what are some of these goals one can set for themselves? (Talking to someone who has not played the game yet)

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