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Reader Comments (47)

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 6:22PM LucentWolf said

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You've really made a very good argument here. I've attempted to try Eve before by those rules before, but this method sounds fun to me.

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 10:55PM Arsinek said

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@LucentWolf

I liked where this article was going but the thing is pvp sucks in this game. The flying controls for this game are the same as an RTS, you click on the ground, or in EVE space, and your attacks you select a target then toggle on/off your weps, no aiming involved. If the actual piloting of this game was like that of Black Prophecy then youd have a game. The lack luster flight and combat in this game is what makes it nothing more then spread sheets in space.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:07AM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@Arsinek

1vs1 PvP doesn't happen very often. But it's totally possible to do "solo roaming" and combat the way you mentioned.

You do have to control distance. You do have to control speed. You have to come from trajectory that keeps you traversal up/their tracking down. You have to overheat your guns/point in order to gain a kill before their interceptor gets you etc.

EVE combat can be both slow, large-scale RTS and quick fastpaced solo roaming (though it requires skill).

Just clicking the target, orbiting and shooting will always get you killed in small scale combat.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:43AM Sabbatai said

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@Arsinek Eve controls the way it does because it IS a tactical game, not twitch. Why put twitch controls in a tactical game?

Eve is about tactics, distance, velocity, maneuverability and efficiency.

Black Prophecy is ok I guess, I loved Freelancer, Descent Freespace, Xwing v Tie fighter and all the rest but Eve's combat is fucking brilliant.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 9:12AM fallwind said

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@LucentWolf so true. I tried Eve for the trial plus two months, and for the life of me I couldn't find anything that wasn't mind-numbingly BORING.

Let's see... I can do the exact same mission I've done a dozen times already, do the F1, F2, F3 "pvp", or go mine. Depressingly mining was actually the most interesting as I could alt-tab and go read web comics.

I never thought that a game with as much hype as Eve could have such a depressingly dull combat system. It's not even Rock/Paper/Scissors, it's "who has the biggest shoe, or who gets to kick the other one in the tender bits first is the winner".
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:10PM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@fallwind

It is, in fact, very much Rock/Paper/Scissors
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:22PM kgptzac said

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@Sabbatai

Yes Eve is a tactical game and has a fighting mechanic to reflect that... though it probably is good enough, but I wouldn't call it brilliant. There are "twitch" moments in eve as well, such as an interceptor trying to get lock on a stealth ship coming out of gate cloak, etc, which I have to say not something I'd particularly enjoy in a mostly tactical setting...

The point is, if you want find something twitchy in eve, there certainly are many opportunities like that. But one has to accept that Eve doesn't have the same type of gameplay like Black Prophecy.

And I have to say if one has to do mining "depressingly"... you are probably not playing the game right.
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Posted: Jul 17th 2011 6:26PM cogswick said

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Eve is all about the community. It's more of a social network with spaceships.

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 6:28PM mattward1979 said

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In my search for a replacement MMO after finally kicking the WOW habit, I went back to EvE. And she welcomed me back like a very understanding wife, forgiving me for my past transgressions, but very sternly laying down the rules for our relationship rehabilitation.

I read about Exploration, and was immediately drawn to this, so found some good net resources, and trained my way up to be able to scan sites, figuring that this would appeal to my solo style, and MAN did it work!

After one month, I had 220mil isk, which was in no way a capped figure... that was done through casual play while I was producing my undergrad project for my computing degree, so I could have easily made 2 or 3 times that figure.

The next month was even better... 600mil, bought a plex, and suddenly EvE was a F2P game for me.. I could easily afford the isk cost of a plex every month for as long as I wanted to play.

But there my interest died... I felt as if I had "beaten" the game.. or at least devalued it to such an extent that I no longer could be bothered to log in to even set skills training...

But the real kicker for me was that from day 1, I was in 0.4 and lower sec space. Unless you are stupid, clumsy or just downright retarded, there is pretty much zero chance of you getting killed in EvE if you choose to deny people that opportunity. And when I actually got into my scanning set up cov ops ship, It may as well have been a single player game, as red blobs had no meaning at all any more.

For a sandbox, there seems to be too many ways to make money and avoid risk to appeal to the true hardcore gamer, and still too steep a curve for the casual that doesnt want to spend 20+ hours reading up on game material to be effective.

Make a choice, stick with it.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:59AM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@mattward1979

That's roughly equivalent of getting to the max level and not raiding, in terms of comparing progression to more level based games.

Once you're starting to get economically stable - you pay your sub with ISK, you have couple of billion extra in your wallet, you have your research agents, your PI chains and your lowsec (or is it wormhole these days?) production POS running. Where to go?

The answer is 0.0 Alliances (the endgame raid). Try to carve out your name on the map, run the empire (infrastructure/fleets)... there's another learning curve in those activities (but it's not very steep either). That's where the game gets really social (you depend on the 1000 or so people in your Alliance).
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 2:23AM DarkWalker said

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@SgtBaker1234556

Another reason I left EVE quite soon: it seemed to me that a too large part of the game was only achievable when playing in corporations.

While I like MMOs - the persistent universe, the open ended gameplay, etc - I don't like the idea of depending on other players for my fun, or of having responsibilities to other players. The extent to which I'm willing to commit to a guild is roughly being on time for a guild event once per week (i.e., weekend raid). Any more and I start to drift away from the game.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 11:59AM Kalex716 said

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@DarkWalker

Set up a small/medium POS in a lower class wormhole. You can be master of your own domain then. Very lucrative, very dangerous, but you can do it all from there. Particularly if you have the economy to afford a couple alts.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:03PM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@DarkWalker

Ah, Very true. Large portions of the EVE require grouping, one might say it's "forced" in order to get anything useful done.

Agreed that it's hard to get into with casual schedule - but it's also very (socially) rewarding when things click right.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 1:16PM kgptzac said

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@mattward1979

I think you played long enough of Eve to know the only sure way of not having ships blown up is to not undock them from stations. And I don't see the fact that people can strategically avoid risks can be dismissed as not hardcore... or do you have a game to use as reference?
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Posted: Jul 17th 2011 7:26PM Pasha said

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> Remember that your ability to achieve anything you want in EVE is limited only by your ambition, intelligence and the effort you put into the game.

Replace "EVE" with "life" and it will be inspirational (but empty) lecture about how to succeed and achieve goals which are dime a dozen in Google and seminars for various kinds of losers. Please, write something interesting.

(P.S. Here goes constructive idea: offer/describe how to create PvP alts for high-sec carebears - mission runners and miners - CCP will be grateful for new accounts)

Posted: Jul 17th 2011 7:37PM (Unverified) said

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The part of the article covering skills is wrong in one aspect: if you don't have the skill to fit X module, then you can't do Y thing that X module provides. Be it a warp scrambler, armor repairer, or signal booster. If you haven't trained the skill for the first level, then you're often at a disadvantage. Also, skills that support fittings, capacitor, and EHP (shield and armor) are *important*, and to not train them is suicide in any situation in Eve. So, sorry, author, having players focus on support skills for their first month while farming for ISK in missions, ratting, and/or exploration is a good thing. It gets them use to figuring out what ships do what best and it gives them more flexible fittings (them pesky support skills), and above all it gives them a cache of ISK to learn from mistakes in PVE and PVP.

Posted: Jul 18th 2011 3:51AM smg77 said

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@(Unverified)

There is no reason a newbie can't be out tearing up lowsec in a rifter while training support skills. Sitting in a station waiting for those skills or running the horrible PvE missions is exactly what makes people quit the game before their trial time runs out.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 4:08AM (Unverified) said

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@smg77 I agree that a newbie can easily drop into a rifter, but if you start in another race (not Minmatar), then you have to cross train. Which can be a pita. Generally, I say stick with your race's best all around vessel for the frigate class if you want to PVP early on. Tristan or Incurus for the Gallente (I'm biased toward the Tristan), Rifter for the Minmatar, Merlin for the Caldari (I
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 7:01AM Brendan Drain said

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@(Unverified) It takes only a few days of training time to get into a good frigate with all the basic skills required to put a big dent in someone's ship. Warp scramblers, stasis webs, small guns, standard missiles and afterburners are pretty much all you need. I have a fondness for the Tristan, Punisher, Kestrel and Rifter, but the cheaper frigates like the Condor and Atron can be great for getting cheap PvP experience.

You could spend months training up support skills to be more effective in combat but why not also PvP in that time to gain valuable experience? On his own, a newbie in a frigate with few support skills won't stand much of a chance. But three or four of them working together well can definitely get some kills! I've done it, I know it works.
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Posted: Jul 18th 2011 12:45PM kgptzac said

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@Brendan Drain

What I don't understand is since it is said solo pvp doesn't happen very often, why suggest newbies to get their rifters blown up in lowsec instead of, as already said, let them know the game mechanics better by maybe grinding some missions, build up some capitals, get to know more ppl and more importantly, absorb pvp knowledge from those people, and then tag along with those people into casual lowsec roams and start learning pvp?

In theory yes, the character's skill has less to do with player's skills and experience in pvp, but the skill list of a character is a social barrier in eve (as many corp that does pvp requires recruits to have certain skill before joining), and it definitely link to how fast you can make isk (provided you are grinding missions) to support your pvp losses.

Also, there is a bare minimum of stuff about pvp in eve that is better known before engaging, such as aggression timer. Rushing a newbie to fly that rifter into lowsec might result him losing that rifter while he doesn't know what killed him, and may be a big financial hit if he's really new to the game.
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