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Reader Comments (48)

Posted: Jul 12th 2011 6:15PM BigAndShiny said

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IMHO, sw:tor will be a nice distraction. I read somewhere they have a grands total of 4 flashpoints per faction (dungeons) and one or two raids planned for launch.

The greatest thing about Bioware games, and what makes the story special is always companions, and having watched the game be played and having read beta stuff, companions aren't as interactive or personal as in say Mass Effect, where you got to know you're crew and their different personalities. That disappoints me I have to say.

SW:TOR seems to take Mr McStandard MMO and attach story to it. I know thats what a lot of people wanted maybe in 2008, but this is 2011, and as TSW and GW2 have already shown, you can put story AND next-gen together.


-John

Posted: Jul 12th 2011 6:16PM BigAndShiny said

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@BigAndShiny
*your crew
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 7:25PM Gaugamela said

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@BigAndShiny

GW2 and TSW, as SW:TOR are riding the hype train associated to unreleased titles. Just wait to see if they succeed before calling them next-gen.

Funcom always released MMOs that are different from the norm but they always failed at releasing stable and polished games at release.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 9:27PM myhumps said

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@BigAndShiny

I doubt TSW will be around long.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 9:40PM EMH said

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@BigAndShiny

I feel it necessary to point out that "4 flashpoints" is NOT final. The build currently in testing is 1 build behind the dev's build. According to one tester, a couple months back they only had 2 flashpoints in-game. Also, the official site has 3 flashpoints listed and says to check back in the future when they add more. There has not been any confirmation on the number of raids in games.

Wait, didn't you say you were in beta before? Now you're saying you have only seen leaks? Huh.
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Posted: Jul 13th 2011 7:19AM Lethality said

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@BigAndShiny TSW and GW2 have "already shown"? They haven't shown in the slightest if the idea can be successful.

The greatest chance for success lies with TOR, that's without question. The others may contribute to advancement of the genre, buy by nature that's going to mean smaller audiences (because people fear change.)

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Posted: Jul 13th 2011 11:07AM DahakaNG said

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@BigAndShiny

You do realize there is no raiding in GW2 right? So unless you are Mr McCasual, it is hardly worth waiting for. With very limited group content play GW2 is more or less a visually impressive single player game with other people running around.

As far as TSW it's made by FunCom, ...and they have such an impressive track record right?

~Dahaka (Host of 'Nothing but TOR')
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 7:02PM Miffy said

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I first started playing MMOs to be in a virtual world I can live in and spend lots of time with my friends in. Star Wars Galaxies was the first MMO I truely loved because the game had so many mechanics running in the background that the average person wouldn't notice, just to keep the game world running. EVE Online does this too and I think this is the reason for their success so far. Most other MMOs would have gotten rid of the travel times and made it all instant, which would have killed EVEs economy.

In SWG they did the same thing and it killed the game, suddenly everyone could travel fast instead of having to wait. That killed the size and feel of the game, it killed a great social aspect of chatting to people while you waited and killed how hard the game was, you didn't have to plan anymore.

WoW is another example of ruining the game world with instant travel to dungeons and battlegrounds. There is no commitment anymore, it keeps people out of the world and just grinding dungeons and battlegrounds all day. I remember when you used to have to wait outside a BG to get in, it was great because everyone chatted and duelled as they waited. Then you had the PVP attacks outside them which were a laugh and it is the unpredictable environment of the world. Even better was when there weren't any and you had PVP in the world and city raids every night. You then got guilds of people protecting the newb chars from getting ganked.

EVE Online stay so true to their world, they wont add anything in that will impact it. This is why people are making such a big fuss over this new Nex store because it could have a bad impact on the economy in the game. Now other developers wouldn't care like how the TCG in SWG added all the best items you couldn't get in game and made crafters more useless.

I just hate how ignorant developers are to keeping a world in an MMO running. They treat an MMO like any other game, when really it's a persistent world and everything that gets added in needs to live side by side with the rest of the world so it doesn't have a negative impact on it.

SOE have me happy (first time for everything) because they're talking about the next Everquest being totally seamless. That has me excited because the only thing I hate in an MMO is a loading screen that takes you out of the world and warps you to another location... just breaks the immersion.

Posted: Jul 12th 2011 8:50PM (Unverified) said

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@Miffy

You make a good point about instant travel reducing the feeling of a big world in an MMO. At the same time, travel is often cited by players as a nuisance. I can see both sides. For instance, I liked Rift's porticulums for no travel time yet it took me a bit to realize it made the world feel smaller. I'm not sure what's more important to me, less hassle or more immersion. It'd be interesting to see what developers have to say about that design aspect.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 11:19PM Borick said

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@(Unverified) It's a nuisance because they have no ownership or investment in anything between point A and B.

Players need to be given a reason to remain invested in the 3D world. Otherwise it's all just a downhill slope toward lobby-based pseudo-MMOs.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 11:34PM Jade Effect said

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@Miffy

Players have been asking for instant travel since Everquest 1. The downside is that instant travel makes the world suddenly seem much smaller, but the upside is that it gets rid of tedious travel time.

Take, for instance, a lower level guildmate is asking for help with a quest. Travel time to the guy is 20 minutes. Add another 20 minutes for traveling back to whatever you're currently doing. Add another 5-10 minutes finding your friend, doing whatever he needs help with, etc, and you're looking at spending an hour. Not a very appealing prospect for most players.

Why do so many games nowadays have mounts? Again, believe it or not, that's what the players want. Should developers not listen to what their customers want? The only ignorance would be to think players want to return the early 90s of spending an hour traveling in the game.
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Posted: Jul 13th 2011 12:54PM Miffy said

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@Jade Effect

Everyone complained about Everquest when they added PoP and luclin cause of all the fast travel and how it ruined usefulness of a couple classes.

I just think it's all poorly implemented these days and we might as well throw away the world in games today seeing as you can instant travel everywhere.

Mounts are fine because they don't break the immersion of the world. Griffins in WoW are fine for the same reason and they keep you in the world with no loading screens. If the griffins suddenly sent you to a loading screen and you were there, then I'd have a problem with it.

I loved how WoW puts an instance to scale in the world, it isn't an NPC that you click on that warps you there like SWG has after the NGE. It isn't a bell you click on like EQ2. They actually take world space and that's why I never had a problem with WoW's instances, from the old game anyways.

Nothing worse than EQ2 or AoCs world with loading screens and zoning everywhere, I love how Wow's zones are seamless.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 7:28PM C Rose said

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"I, and 14 other guildmates, really want to plan on rolling on an rp-pvp server. It's such a trivial game feature to confirm for us, I don't understand why they wouldn't just mention it and be done with it."

"A good rule of thumb with MMO development is to never assume something is trivial." -Stephen Reid

Well first off this IS a trivial feature and should be clearly defined at this point. Now that being said, it's enforcement and implementation is NOT trivial however. But simply stating that, "Yes there will be servers that are clearly designated as PvE, PvP, RP, RP-PvP...", is a simple thing to do. Now whether or not those RP servers will have rules on naming and other RP elements and whether there will be GM's actively enforcing those rules is a different thing entirely and one that I feel won't be top priority for Bioware. So yes and no, it's not trivial but it can be trivial...if you know what I mean.

Also the "Segways" were a terrible decision. They looked like laughably non-epic means of transport for "Heroic" characters. I mean the Sith Inquisitor awkwardly straddling that thing was pitiful and I wonder how they ever decided that those would go over well with the community.

They're defense of such strange vehicles was of course that they didn't want "10 ft. long speeders in the city areas" but I mean that's a small price to pay for such an important and lore specific element that we all want to have. Even if they don't have full-sized speeders at least put a little effort into the design process for vehicles so that they look somewhat grand and imposing and not distractingly comical.

But otherwise those are only a couple of small concerns I have for the game and neither one will really bother me much in the long run. I understand Bioware's need for secrecy with Blizzard clearly holding back content month after month waiting to spring some big updates right around TOR's release, but honestly it's going to be futile and nothing will diminish TOR's sales and excitement the first week of launch. Even if they launched the SAME day as another big name title (which won't happen) they still wouldn't suffer much in terms of sales.

So all Blizzard is doing by playing they're same old "we're going to try to one-up you and steal your thunder" routine is simply holding back too much content and pissing off their player-base to the point of only hurting themselves. I mean a new expansion and 6 months down the road only 2 re-hashed 5 mans and 1 raid...Blizzard you're trying to be too clever for your own good.


Posted: Jul 12th 2011 7:59PM (Unverified) said

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@C Rose

There are more vehicle types ingame, also speeder bike like vehicles
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 8:53PM (Unverified) said

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@C Rose

Segways? Haha, that's great. They also reminded me of jet skis. Not very epic at all!

And yeah, I'm starting to feel the same way about WoW. They're putting out content awfully slow. To hold it back specifically for competition is not only unfriendly to the consumer, it's a big slap to the face.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 10:57PM C Rose said

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@(Unverified)

Yeah they've said that there are and I assume some of the player accessible (non-taxi) vehicles are speeders and the like, but I still hope I'm not stuck riding those ugly ones we saw on Tatooine.

They don't have to be full-sized speeders, but make them aesthetically pleasing and appropriate to the "tone" of the game and your character's story.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 7:33PM Lateris said

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Is it just trivial to ask for a good space game in TOR? The ground combat looks and feels great. The space combat feels like it was made for a flash browser based game for a little child. I am not ripping on TOR. I am tearing apart the space combat which is ridiculously made for games that you play on AOL or the in the flash arcade game back in 2001.

Posted: Jul 12th 2011 8:35PM Blyn said

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@Lateris

This complaint i don't get!

alot of people aren't liking the on-rails StarFox style space combat...

STARFOX STYLE SPACE COMBAT

the StarFox games were two of the most popular and fun games on their consoles!

i think alot of people will go into space combat for the first time as a grumpy gus and be embarrassed by the endorphins released despite themselves...
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 9:59PM EMH said

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@Lateris

The only other game that I'm aware of that had both space and ground combat at launch was Star Trek Online, and look how that turned out. =/
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Posted: Jul 12th 2011 11:16PM Lucidus said

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@Blyn Consoles. And old ones at that. Do you know why flight on rails came about? Not enough computing power for 3D! It was a tech limitation. This game is for PCs in 2011.

Not even the new Starfox is on rails.
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