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Reader Comments (40)

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 10:02PM Popplewell said

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If they haven't got the message that MTs are a touchy subject by now, they never will.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 10:58PM smg77 said

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@Popplewell

They are aware of the controversy but I think they are trying to weigh the loss of some of their customers against the potential profits they could get. Since CCP is funding two other games off of Eve potential profit is all they care about at this point.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 11:30PM Eric Francis said

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Im done with MMOs for a long time. CCP was my last hope for some sort of old school sandbox thing with World of Darkness and that all went out the window 2 weeks ago. Gonna take my money and see music shows, go out etc... instead of dealing with this new corporate framework for MMOs where they nickle and dime you for everything without caring about how the end product plays.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 1:03AM Wizardling said

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I'm still not keen on non-vanity MT, other than PLEX and character sales. Try and sell me as many vanity items as you like - fine by me. I don't mind at all. But I don't think the rich or foolish (with their finances) should be given an overwhelming advantage over those taking the time to actually play Eve. Buy PLEX off CCP if you want a leg up, and keep Eve a subscription-funded game.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 1:22AM Graill440 said

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Several points i disagree with the first being "out of thin air". With endless resources why would anyone even care about this other than their market share might drop? Again its leaning over and trying to see what the other person is doing, it makes you a busy body.

The store would be win win all around, flies would leave, new folks would come in, everyone would have choice, how is any of that bad?

The CSM has come around to bite CCP in the ass. The reason for its creation, the stigma that forced its birth was bad all around, now it is simply a cancer the devs do not want to control. CCP has a forum they should use it, and it isnt the CSM. The devs run EVE, the subs play in the sandbox, right now this isnt the way i see things working. I see a small number of flies bullying the devs and enjoying their little victories.

I would gladly see a large loss of flies to get even more subs in exchange, fix the game CCP, not the people. They will either leave or stay, but not until you grab your nuts and make a choice based on whats best for the game, not a few flies. Laugh.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 2:37AM Unverfied B said

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CCP has jumped the shark, it's pretty clear from their dodgey statements and maneuvering around questions that pay2win is here to stay and expand ...

Screw that, i don't trust you anymore CCP and won't touch EVE or any of your future games.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 5:44AM startruck said

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seems to me eve had always been pay to win, the only difference is now real life cash is going to be an element. It's a crazy no holds barred universe. Maybe some guy will buy a ship and get locked down by a pirate and have to send money to the pirates pay pal account.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 7:25AM Rodj Blake said

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I remember CCP's April Fools' Day devblog from a couple of years ago where they announced Subscription 2.0 with it's multifarious microtransactions.

Oh how we all laughed.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 7:32AM Scuffles said

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It all boils down to one simple fact that I can not stress enough....

What a company says now has absolutely no bearing on what they do 6months down the line.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised when they put game effecting items in the game store and people call them on it. Specifically siting when they said that they would NEVER do such a thing, that they get the standard substandard corporate response of "We never said that".

Best example ever was LOTRO there was concern that it might go F2P since DND did ..... but they were assured there was no way LOTRO was going to go F2P ....... like 8 months later LOTRO is FREE TO PLAY FOREVER!

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:21AM Valkesh said

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@Scuffles To be fair though, this may not have been entirely Turbine's decision as it was something that was expected once Warner Bro bought them out.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:07AM (Unverified) said

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What's micro about this again? Stop calling it that, it's getting annoying. RMT or anything else would be fine. Calling 70 bucks a micro-transaction is just lying to the consumers, simple as that.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:13AM Paradigm68 said

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Given that the summit did not change or resolve anything I wonder why the author feels the CCP pulled things back well? Being a hair's breadth away from leaving the game, what in the summit changed things for you? The CSM's feeling that it will all be ok? Because that is essentially all we got.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:42AM Brendan Drain said

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@Paradigm68 What did it for me was a few things:
- Seeing CCP buckle under the very real unsubscribing of players and take the issue extremely seriously proved that if they cross this line again in the near future it will affect their bottom line. That's why I can't see anything big happening on the microtransaction front until WoD and DUST are out and producing money. It's a temporary respite, but a respite nonetheless.

- The CSM confirmed that CCP had no immediate plans for non-vanity items before the meeting and still had none in action after the meeting. Hilmar then stated in an interview that the CSM would be involved in the development process for any future microtransactions (as they were for all of the current ones, with the exception of the pricing strategy). If CCP shows the CSM plans that do interfere with gameplay, I trust that they will make some serious noise about it (not just at the CSM summits but also in the media).

- In the press conference, CCP Zulu gave some great answers to questions. He did dance around the issue of non-vanity items, and I'm convinced this is because CCP intends to expand into convenience items but doesn't want to give any details now because it would cause a media shitstorm with all the recent goings-on. But he did make it clear that he understands the importance of player-market arbitration and that the CSM would be used to determine if something is "game-breaking" before it's implemented. That, for me, is enough.

I'm not super excited about the whole thing, but like a lot of players I've been pulled back from almost quitting.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 9:26AM Paradigm68 said

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@Brendan Drain Thx for responding!
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:18AM Valkesh said

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"This suggests that the cash shop will eventually be expanded from vanity items to convenience goods that shortcut grindy gameplay -- a typical strategy that has proven both effective and acceptable mostly in free to play"

That's a pretty wild assumption, as I can think of quite a few people, myself included, who don't think that adding a grind or leaving a grind in place, effectively handicapping characters or enforcing poor design, just so you can sell cash shop crap is acceptable.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing was settled regarding this matter, and most people including the news sites simply took the results of the conference as a nice "closure" point when really it was really just another fancy distraction. The game is already less than it ever was, and will only become more so over time as this crap gets more involved. I've gone back and forth to Eve over a long period of time, but there isn't a chance in hell I'll ever return after this.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 9:03AM Brendan Drain said

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@Valkesh The quoted sentence is not a wild assumption, it's a verifiable fact. All it takes to prove that statement correct is a few examples of free-to-play MMOs in which convenience goods that shortcut grindy gameplay are both effective (highly purchased) and acceptable (not a source of significant controversy). I can name four just off the top of my head: Runes of Magic. Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online. and Maple Story.

I disagree with your assessment that "leaving grind in" is poor design. Grind isn't some evil thing that sneaks into games and should be eliminated whenever possible. It's just any system by which a person can invest a significant (sometimes unlimited) amount of time or effort into something and get a reward proportional to that effort. That's part of the core gameplay of most MMOs, and in EVE it would be things like mission-running, ratting, mining etc.

Just because some people don't have the time to invest in long and drawn out (grindy) gameplay doesn't mean that the grind should be removed completely. The players with a lot of free time quite enjoy grinding away an evening and getting a good reward for the day's work, remove that grind and you remove the only thing time-rich players have to do because that's content to them.

But if that grind conferrs and advantage, for example getting a jump clone after you grind enough missions to get +8.0 standing with a corp, players who don't have the time to grind are shit out of luck. Where would the harm be in letting them compete on the same terms as other players by paying for a shortcut?
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 11:12AM (Unverified) said

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@Brendan Drain The problem isn't that "leaving grind in" is poor design. The problem is that if you're making money from selling grind-bypassing items, the company is encouraged to introduce MORE grind to the game, not less. Again, see your own example F2P games. They're HORRIBLY grindy experiences without notable investments of money.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 8:58AM Fire Walk With Me said

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@Tempes Magus I dont think they need a cash shop at all. Put some of these little vanity items in the game as freebies to reward players and spread goodwill.

I dont think all the players who are ever going to play Eve are already playing. I was just in Uni and a lot of the players there are new. You can tell be the tone of their questions they are not alts.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 11:39AM Fire Walk With Me said

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@Tempes Magus You are right of course but it makes me sad that there was a time where freebie vanity items where the rule not the exception. My experience was FFXI and not an update came out where some stupid but fun hat would be released on the public. How we all became so complacent and willing to pay for everything is regretful and is our error.

On the console side if you look at the new add-ons on xbl everyday Agarest War, Marvel vs Capcom and Cars 2 release some crap unlockable for money. While not suprising it still sucks.

Thanks horse armor.

Posted: Jul 11th 2011 1:18PM ByDesign said

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Any who believes Cash for Ships doesn't happen now is simply fooling themselves.

Example
1. I buy plex
2. Sell plex in-game for ISK
3. buy ships with ISk

If I want to spend $100,000 on plex or $30 its no different in mechanics. Only the scale is different not the concept.

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