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Reader Comments (40)

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 6:23PM dudes said

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I remember the days when complexity was staring at an asteroid listening to music then returning to sell and repeat.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 7:58PM (Unverified) said

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@dudes

Aye, though I like a lot of the new ships and features, I do sorta wish for the pre-Tech II days economy-wise. Everything just balanced out better it seemed.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 8:36PM Brendan Drain said

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@dudes I do miss those good old days of EVE from 2004-2005. But every year I look back on the previous one in the same way, as the good old days. As a game that continually evolves, the big thing for me is to do everything I can while I can because in a few years gameplay is sure to be fundamentally different.

Getting heavily into faction warfare when it came out and wormholes when they appeared have left me with a shitload of awesome memories and stories, and I'd have regretted not engaging in that gameplay if I'd let it miss me by. The same then must be true of today, that in a year's time I'll look back at now and say "I wish I'd done X" or "I'm really glad I got stuck into X."
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 9:55PM Plastic said

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@dudes

Maybe check out Perpetuum? It's kind of where EVE was 5 years ago.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 7:28AM dudes said

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@Plastic
Nah those days of proudly watching my laser carve an asteroid into bits, go to station, sell, return to asteroids, kill random pirate, repeat, are long long gone.

Bizarrely I'm looking forward to GW2 more. Or maybe it's not that bizarre, I don't know anymore as I have no idea what tricks companies will pull next. The proof will be in the pudding later on after launch.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 11:09AM (Unverified) said

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@Plastic Buggy, grindy, and nearly unplayable with a horrible new-user experience? Yup, looks about right.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 6:38PM DrewIW said

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Less than a year ago CCP stated they had zero plans for microtransactions.

Given how quickly they reneged on that, you can expect to see ships for cash in 2012.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 7:33PM ndessell said

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@DrewIW they said that and the next day free-to-play and cash shops exploded into the it mmo model
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 1:55AM Bedazzled said

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@ndessell And? EVE still requires a subscription to play it. Yes, 1 PLEX = 30d gametime but at some point, somewhere, someone paid $19 for that PLEX to appear.

CCP are trying to double dip their customers with the NeX and frankly recent, just released, devblogs and the CSM comments about them being totally ignored again make me suspect one thing:

CCP are going to try and screw every $ they can out of its customer base. So items of power and convinence will be arriving shortly, probably within the next 6 months.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 7:36PM Flicktion said

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Wait so people are mad because newbs can be viable, elitists much? It's more of a suprise it hasn't adopted a f2p/ cash shop model yet. As long as things are obtainable in another way besides cash shop (not referring to vanity) I think it would make the game immensely better. I'm not saying people who pay extra should get the upperhand, but definitely have access to top of the line.

Anyone starting today would NEVER be able to get to the top, and that's beyond retarded. I realize EVE is a niche game, but allowing new players to compete is not a bad idea. At all.

/evefanboisrageon

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 7:54PM (Unverified) said

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@Flicktion
It takes years to get tens of millions of SP, that much is true, but as many people have stated there are "levelcaps" in EVE - you can only train skills to level V, and in just a few months with sufficient financial backing you can rival any other player that has played for years longer than you have. Newbs can be viable much earlier than, assuming they are helped to train the right things.

As for why people are mad, well that's just bitter vets feeling they're entitled to something for playing so long, who have apparently never read any EULA's ever.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 8:31PM Brendan Drain said

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@Flicktion The biggest failing of EVE's skill system isn't the fact a new player will never be able to match the number of skill points an older player has, it's the fact that from the outside it looks like a new player SHOULD want to match the number of skill points an older player has. Skillpoints are not EVE's levels, they're a temporary time-based roadblock in front of content. In reality, there's a finite limit to the skills that apply to one particular ship or task. More skillpoints give you a greater diversity in what you can do, that's all.

When I'm flying a PvP-fit blaster Thorax, for example, I'm using armour, drone, blaster and gunnery skills in addition to my level in the Gallente Cruiser skill. Even though I've got tens of millions of skillpoints, only a few million will be being applied. All my skills in missiles, Caldari ships, industry etc aren't being used. This means a new player doesn't have to train up to the same number of total skill points I have, they just need to pick one thing to specialise in and train a few million skill points to match me in a Thorax.

Similarly, EVE skills require exponentially more training time per level and can only reach a maximum of level 5 (each level contributing the same small bonus to an attribute). That means that unless level 5 in a skill is a pre-requisite to use some elite ship or item (like frigate 5 being needed to fly interceptors), a new player can train a skill up to level 4 and gain 80% of the skill's bonus by only investing about 17.7% of the training time.

A new player can specialise in one ship like the Drake or Dominix or whatever and with only 6 months or so training time can get almost as much out of that ship as a 7-year veteran. Remembering that the actual bonuses provided by skills don't make even close to a big difference in gang warfare or a fleet fight (the big differences here being excellent fleet commanding, situational awareness, strategy and execution), the skill system doesn't seem like such an unfair system. It's just unfortunate that there's no way to make that really clear to prospective players who think that 80-million skillpoints is EVE's level 80 and they'll never reach it.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 9:06PM Fire Walk With Me said

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@Flicktion A corp of newbs flying an army of Rifters can take down almost anything. I started 6 months ago and dont think anything is holding me back in this game if I am smart enough.

so i disagree.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 10:02PM Brendan Drain said

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@Fire Walk With Me Definitely. This is how GoonSwarm started, as an army of hundreds of newbies in Rifters pouring through nullsec and killing anything that moved. They called themselves little bees, because individually one frigate in the hands of a newbie isn't a big deal, but in their hundreds it's lethal. Now look at them, they own a massive area of nullsec.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2011 2:17AM SgtBaker1234556 said

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@Flicktion

You've been able to buy a high-skillpoint characters off the market for a long time. So that "new players can't compete" just isn't true.

Go to the character bazaaar and get yourself a 80SP PvP char. Good luck with that.

Skillpoints give you flexibility, but they still don't mean much, EVE PvP is so very seldom 1vs1.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 7:43PM (Unverified) said

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Pay to win is for losers.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 8:02PM Brendan Drain said

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@(Unverified) In a sense, Pay to Win is already here via the PLEX system. As long as CCP maintains the arbitration of player-producable goods through the player market in a similar way to the PLEX-for-ISK trade, I honestly don't see a problem with it. That's probably because EVE has no "win" conditions, it's a sandbox that's 100% endgame and defined largely by the players.

You can currently use PLEX to buy a 50-million skillpoint character from another player and buy every ship in the game fitted with officer modules, but that doesn't somehow win the game or even put you on a competitive level above other players. There is no amount of ISK you can pour into EVE to become the best at PvP, for example, because PvP is not a solo affair. A handful of newbies in cruisers with a good sense of situational awareness and strategy could turn a 50m-skillpoint character's battleship or officer-fit ship into a pile of scrap metal -- and I know that's more than just an ideal because I've done it with myself and a few friends on new characters several times.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2011 8:02PM Irem said

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"In a few years, the MMO market could be completely different; subscriptions may be frowned on, gameplay-affecting microtransactions could be widely accepted and the recent controversy might seem like a very silly debate to have had."

And I'll be drinking whiskey from a jar over in the corner, muttering incessantly about the good old days.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 9:08PM Fire Walk With Me said

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I really dont understand how the writer though safe transport of goods for Aurum is possibly a good idea. The fear of unsafe transport is how many of us make our living and is one of the most exciting things about the game. Fearless transport would be more gamebreaking than any golden ship imo. A golden ship can be destroyed (one would assume) while a broken economy in a game cannot be repaired.

Posted: Jul 10th 2011 10:00PM Brendan Drain said

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@Fire Walk With Me Not transport of goods, just transport of large empty ships through highsec that can be transported in relative safety already. It's a minor loss in vulnerabiity and sandbox gameplay as it's hard to suicide gank a battleship already and nobody does it. I think it'd be definitely worth the positive benefits of letting people buy a skinned ship (including base hull) directly with aurum through a player-mediated market and deliver it to any highsec station without there being an advantage gained there over normal gameplay.

I guarantee you that even if you could pay 30mil to have a battleship moved from A to B people would still fly them manually.
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