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Reader Comments (81)

Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:17PM smg77 said

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Look at you thinking the whole ordeal was about the price of the monocle.

Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:59PM Beau Hindman said

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@smg77 I didn't say the whole thing was about the price of the monocle.

Beau
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 7:00PM Dril said

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@smg77

Indeed.

I really cannot be bothered to disagree with the Beau's paper-thin assertion at the end (not to mention his total misunderstanding of why people don't like his beloved "pay more, BUT IN SMALLER CHUNKS!" and why that argument is but a small piece of the EVE drama) because my fingers hurt.

Suffice to say:
-PLEX does buy ISK, yes. But (like good RMT) it is only an alternative to, not a replacement for ISK, and it's pretty damned expensive if you want to do anything beyond fit out t1 ships in t1 stuff. And you could do it all in game within a reasonable timeframe.
-The monocle wasn't really the issue at hand, y'know?
-Source me the "decreasing minority."
-People got pissed off by the attitude of the company and cash shop exclusivity, because it BREAKS THE SANDBOX. That's it.

Also: the Soapbox is a great place for flamebait. Not hither, in columns.
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 9:59PM Jenks said

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@Beau Hindman

You completely missed the point. I'm actually embarassed for you.

For anyone interested in reading a blog on this subject but actually worth your time, try here:

http://www.brokentoys.org/2011/06/28/fear-and-monocles/
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 11:07PM jeremys said

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@Dril It's a very finicky world of MMO players out there. I would say that in many fundamental and mechanical ways Runes of Magic resembles the way EVE dishes out RMT, but I get a vastly different and old-school reaction to my column that would make it seem it's the same old cash-shop that any F2P has ever had.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 2:20AM (Unverified) said

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@Beau Hindman

What an awful steaming pile of crap. Firstly, nobody in my fleet has purchased PLEX and sold for in game ISK as a way to shortcut getting ships/gear. Your assertion that anyone who was mad had "already" purchased their way to a character or a ship or anything was simply off base. But, since you are the kind of person who thinks nothing of dropping $50 for a ship in a game where you lose your ship frequently if you do anything remotely interesting ... I guess you cannot envision anything else eh?

I also thought your potshot at people's religious activities to be a pretty clear indicator of what you are. A worthless troll. One wonders how you remain employed. Oh... yeah... it's Massively.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 6:02AM Dril said

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@jeremys

I actually don't have a huge problem with ROM's cash shop for the vast majority of the game; it is, up until endgame (and the later levels) fairly balanced and fair.

The problem I see with ROM's cash shop is that the power (increasing an item to level 4+) is almost impossible to get with the in-game stuff due to the failure rate (well, that was the case when I played. I know CSs tend to evolve so if the CS is now required for something different do let me know.)

That's the fundamental difference between PLEX and others that I think people miss: PLEX is a shortcut, and it doesn't destabilise the economy because it's quite expensive. Other cash shops are the sole and only method to acquire their items/power, and that's what I (personally) have a problem with.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 12:27PM ChromeBallz said

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@Dril The actual problem with this was that the cash shop bypasses the most fundamental game mechanic of EVE: The market.

With Plex, someone still has to get the isk, and you only get the isk someone else already made, using it you buy things that other people already made using normal ingame methods.

With the cash shop you bypass this entire process. Ships get materialized out of thin air for example, all the minerals involved in building one are never mined or sold, no one ever built it in the first place. It cuts out a huge section of the game that's necessary for the ingame economy to stay balanced.

Plex on themselves are worthless. They do nothing, provide not a single ingame benefit. They only cost a lot of isk - It's basically an out of game service offered, like teamspeak for isk or something similar, hence they have no effect on the market as a whole.

Ships, ammo etc however would have a gigantic effect since they DO affect the game directly.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 12:58PM Daemodand said

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@Jenks The article's comparison of this to the NGE is spurious. If all the ships were taken out of the game, replaced by a few simpler versions, and combat made into a third person shooter, that would be the EVE version of the NGE. A cash shop is not the NGE and the comparison is not valid.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 1:11PM Eric Francis said

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@smg77

Yeah lets completely forget how deep this thing went, as far as souring me on World of Darkness's selling power items for money. It was just a bunch of babies whining.

I get paid to write this crap, words on the internet, serious business.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 2:48PM Dril said

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@ChromeBallz

I mentioned that under "it breaks the sandbox."
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 3:19PM jeremys said

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@Dril Apart from a few problems I have, that I think you hit on nicely, Diamonds are pretty much a shortcut.

Even recently, items that were squeezed into the cash-shop only route are now opened up more: Purified Fusion Stones - a very big source of contention for the fair vs. pay-to-win debate - are available with Phirius Tokens now.

I do agree the Refining Jewels are separated out, but Diamonds are integrated not just into the game, but into the gameplay - which I see as similar to PLEX. Another current downside is Runewaker has yet to fix the Diamond/Auction house issue. The diamonds once were (fluidly?) traded in the auction house which allowed balancing of fair prices for anything in the cash-shop against any other in-game item.

While the diamonds have been out of the auction house for some time now, they can still be traded via gifting so even the Refining Jewels with the higher chance of success are able to be bought via gold.

RoM's cash-shop then may be the only place some items come from, but it's not the sole way to obtain those items.

Frogster does skirt the boundaries of "short-cuts" by throwing up powerful pre-tiered runes for sale and other specialty items that let you perform item cleanings and the like which make it extremely easy for only the people with money to quickly.

Some players use these items on the trust-system within RoM and offer cleaning services whereby the player has to hand over their valuable item for the other person to "clean" and trust they send it back to them - and even that, in a way, to me, taps into the fundamentals of human-controlled gameplay that is found in EVE.

It certainly isn't as robust as in EVE and no one comes close to EVE's economy(that I know of), but I find it interesting.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 7:32PM jeremys said

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@Dril Oh, I wanted to offer an additional comment about the cash-shop at endgame.

RoM has changed a lot over the years, but it's become fairly balances spending at any level and any type of gameplay.

It's actually not wrong to say that many players actually end up spending much less at endgame because it is much easier to come across gold and get it faster(after reaching certain gear-levels).

Then the majority of spenders become those that are spending on truly locked items like the styling salon to change the colors of armor pieces or continue to pay for "rent" upkeep on houses that currently have absolutely no way other than buying diamonds for yourself.

This doesn't include people who are trying to go from level 1 to cap by spending as little as humanly possibly and only taking part in dungeon and gear upgrading. There's still certain grindy and monotounous hurdles that Runewaker are slowly smoothing out(like the recent introduction of crimson stats in mini-games), but once you've managed to reach a certain threshold, earning gold in-game becomes easier and offsets the need to spend real money by using the easily obtainable lots of gold to buy cash-shop items from other players.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2011 9:15PM Jenks said

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@Daemodand

The amount of outrage is what is compared, and it is absolutely valid. To be blunt, Scott Jennings knows a lot more than you do.
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:18PM Halldorr said

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All I could think of during all of this was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Posted: Jul 6th 2011 10:00PM whateveryousay said

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@Halldorr
That was the worst thing I've seen in the last 24 hours.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 4:27AM wfseg said

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@Halldorr
O_O Wh...Where...Huh.. What?
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:22PM StClair said

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Ohhh, are you gonna get flamed. (Which is probably what you had in mind all along.)
"Dance, monkeys, dance!"

Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:40PM tooright said

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@StClair you see him trollin...
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Posted: Jul 6th 2011 6:22PM haneybird said

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The prices were not the only thing in Incarna that angered players.

Incarna actually removed functionality from stations and slowed down changing ships or cargo. Also, the increase in system resources needed caused people that run multiple clients to have problems ranging from increased lag to reports of systems overheating to the point of PC parts burning up.

It was all of this combined with the prices in the Noble Exchange (cash shop for you non EVE players) that set the stage for the rage that ensued once the internal documents started leaking.

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