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Reader Comments (102)

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 5:02PM DevilSei said

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@Ordegar
I understand, I'm just saying that generally there is 3 people when it comes to those who don't understand the game.
1) Those who don't but are willing to and wanting to learn.
2) Those who don't and care not to unless something changes their mind. and finally
3) Those who (whether they do or don't understand) could care less about the game and prefer just to... for lack of a better term, "troll" it.

I never said there wasn't people who are willing to learn, or that an article shouldn't be bothered, just saying that currently some of the people who might be showing confusion may or may not really care for whatever reason.
And to talk about the combat mechanics of the game should probably wait until the final class reveal I think. Right now, the only thing that every class shares is rolling/dodging, the capability to heal/control, and little else. Alone though, classes have more unique methods that serve their own dynamic style.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 10:39AM Cyclone Jack said

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@Puremallace

"Well the reason is pretty damn simple on why we are confused. You have a company who has not run a MMORPG all of a sudden walk up and say we are revolutionizing everything."

You should do some research before you start spouting things like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Strain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Wyatt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien_%28game_developer%29

I think they are more than qualified.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 2:14PM Irem said

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@Puremallace
The playerbase this game is attracting largely doesn't want raids.
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 3:24PM (Unverified) said

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Fuck A net and all these articles, I want the game and I want it now >.

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 3:48PM lobstilops said

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That relaxes me a bit too. I have about 4 friends I know for sure will be getting the game with me so it works perfectly. I was just worrying that if one more jumped in we would have to exclude someone, which would suck. So hopefully there are other larger group events (like the dragon fights) that we can participate in together.

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 5:14PM IncognitoHat said

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Holy crap some of the complains.

A dungeon group is five people. If you have more friends than that, start a second group. Or, hell, run the dungeon again.

This is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard someone complain about

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 5:40PM DevilSei said

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@IncognitoHat
It's an opinion, so it isn't stupid.

We're also coming off from a game that has generally handled everything as if we were 8 people (or 1 person and 7 npcs, or yadda yadda) strong, we're used to having a bit more in terms of people. This is also the only content announced so far with a strict limit on how many people can participate at once.
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 6:28PM Ashane said

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@DevilSei

Just because its a opinion, dosent mean it cannot be stupid.

I could say that the sky goes dark because god's eyes close at night. That's a pretty stupid opinion, and I'd probably get told that.

While I understand that Rubi apparently only plays Guild Wars, there are other MMO's out there where 4, 5, 6 groups have worked perfectly well and continue to work perfectly well.

That was, and is, the least of my worries for GW2. (Personally, I'm more worried about the Cash Shop then anything, as I know when the profits start getting down, NCSoft gets desperate)
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 6:39PM DevilSei said

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@Ashane

Ashane, there is a difference in that aspect. Would you call the beliefs of ancient cultures stupid because they did not have access to what we know? I would hope not at least, because if so that would make you, among other things, horribly ignorant.

As for the cash shop. Guess what? Guild Wars already operates on a cash shop, and if you can't be bothered to even begin looking into that, I'm not going to bother going beyond saying this, "the cash shop in no way affects ones in game performance, and really only offers cosmetic items".



I'm not going to bother defending someone else from baseless assumptions
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 1:49AM Ashane said

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@DevilSei

I wasnt talking about older civilizations was I? I didnt mention say.. Copernicus saying that the planets revolved around the sun, and getting mocked?

No, I gave a crystal clear example, which shoudnt have been very hard to read, but apparently it was for you.

Let's try again. If I said the ocean was made of blood, that would be a stupid opinion, correct? Or, would you simply argue that since its my opinion, its not stupid in the slightest and I'm entitled to think the ocean is made purely from blood?

As to the GW Cash Shop, I'm well aware of it, considering I played GW. I'm also well aware of the recent additions to the cash shop (perhaps you arent?) which do give crystal clear advantages to those who purchased said items.

The Mercenary Hero pack is perhaps the latest example, and Rubi even did a piece on it herself, as well as numerous other GW fansites. While many agree it's pushing the "play to win" border, most simply dont care because GW1 is, in a nutshell, dead when GW2 arrives... so it will simply allow people to farm hall of monuments stuff easier.

Now, one could argue that was Arenanet's intent.. or one could argue that they are simply testing the waters as to what their subscribers will actually allow in a cash shop, just like CCP is doing.

That's not even mentioning the "XXX" skill packs. (PvP, Prophecies, etc)

While the original players had to get those skills the old fashion way, new players can simply pony up some cash and there you go. It dosent matter if achieving those skills was easy, or hard (most easy I'd say, but some hard).. its the point that a new player can simply waltz in, pay $40 and have them all. Screw *your* hard work.

I'm struggling to even think of any MMO (or even MMO-esque, ala Diablo 2, Hellgate London, etc) that simply allows you to buy every skill in the game. In fact, I cant think of any.. probably because its a stupid idea.

The advantage in paying cash for Guild War's is there, it always has been.. it's just a small advantage that most players could eventually overcome.

Why anyone think's its going to be different in GW2 is beyond me... this game isnt going to survive on boxed sales, nor on clothing. They *need* a Mercenary Hero Pack or something similar to really drive up cash once box sales dip. Its common sense really.

Still looking forward to the game, still buying two copies for the wife and I, however I'm just being a realist and understanding I might have to drop some additional cash at a later date.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 8:10AM Rubi said

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@Ashane Just popping in quickly to clear this up: "While I understand that Rubi apparently only plays Guild Wars"

Where did you come to that understanding? That's ... well, that was true around three years ago, long before I came to Massively, but it's a little confusing to hear it now. I've hopped in and out of 15-20 MMOs since then. My current favorites are RIFT (I'm the leader of Massively's RIFT guild on the Galena server), Fallen Earth, and of course GW. I'm still dabbling in LotRO and DDO, and trying very hard to find time to check out a few small F2Ps.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 10:30AM DevilSei said

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@Ashane
My point was that there are some things you can't really disregard as being stupid, that being cultural beliefs. Fact of the matter is that ideas commonly associated to "primitive" cultures are still around, and several still exist, even in more modern civilizations. It's not that I didn't get it, but that your example is rather... weak.

And I am aware of the mercenary pack, and whatever its "supposed" advantages is. Whatever it lets you get out of it, has already been done before with other builds. Oooo you can have a 7-way discord build now, there's other builds just as effective, if not moreso.

And guess what? Those pvp skill pack unlocks you are claiming unbalance everything and makes it so easy to grab? Peer and utter bull.

"If you own the original Nightfall, you will receive:
* Immediate access to these unlocked skills for your Heroes and PvP characters
* Ability to acquire the unlocked non-elite skills for PvE characters through a Skill Trainer or tome, and the ability to acquire unlocked elite skills with an elite "
You still need to buy the skills from the trainers, and for the elites you still need the Elite tomes, the only real advantage is for people going through Nightfall, and even then its debatable.

As for the necessity of an item like the merc pack, Guild Wars did just fine without it for a while, and it was only recently implemented because they managed to get the code working out for it (same as the now Any-class Hero).
So unless you can see into the future and tell me everything that is in their shop, which I do doubt, there is nothing that proves there will be such a thing in it. The only item they've even discussed was the stones used to to keep the style of armor while updating its stats with something new.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 11:20AM Irem said

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@Puremallace

If she doesn't have anything critical to say, do you want her to make stuff up?
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 1:35PM DevilSei said

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@Puremallace

Pure, its hard to have anything critical to say about a game, when we haven't played it, and Arena.Net hasn't announced every detail for it.
She criticized the UI and voice acting, because from the outside it looked intrusive instead of cohesive. Yet playing the game she changed her mind and liked the UI.

As for the Voice Acting, well we haven't heard all of it, and its not like she's completely redacted the statement about the voices either. We also don't know if they plan on ever adding a larger instanced dungeon to do. We know they have the eight right now, but a 10-12 person "raid" dungeon zone like Underworld or Fissure of Woe could still be in the cards and added via updates.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 2:42PM Irem said

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@Puremallace
Trust me, plenty of fans are critical of GW2. The bigger forums are full of "I don't like this" and "I see a potential problem here" and "Couldn't we have this instead?" and so on, and I've done my share of bitching about the game myself. They've changed a lot of things due to player criticism.

The reason you don't see any criticism is because you haven't done any research on the game, so you don't understand how it works, and you don't get why fans aren't screaming bloody murder because -you- personally can't be asked to absorb stuff that's common knowledge to people who have been following the game. The things you're "concerned" about are your pet complaints, and that's all they are. Rubi actually had the game in her hands and she and everybody else who tried it have been saying the same things, which is a pretty good indication that this is actually the way the game works. Will it be perfect? No, probably not, but you seem to be unable to accept that it even -works-, to say nothing of whether or not it's fun.
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Posted: Jul 5th 2011 3:53PM DevilSei said

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@Puremallace

Let me adjust and reiterate what I said.

It's hard to generate much of a negative opinion on a game when one has only played the game a limited amount of time. That is why we don't get reviews of games based solely upon the demos of them. Why? Because demos are easily controllable experiences.

Hell, look at Age of Conan, lots of people were playing through the highly polished "beginner" experience, and only that, and that led to sales based on a limited view of the game.

You want any in-depth criticisms, you'll have to wait til people have actually played through a solid portion of the game, otherwise at best you'll get something that is thinly spread and easily debunked.
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 5:36PM Trippin said

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ok i didnt read all the comments, but anyway here it goes:

I dont judge a game anymore before it's released. I won't be getting SW:TOR, cause in my opinion the game is gonna be to traditional with it's MMO concept. But im open minded an i think and hope it will be a success formula.

UI is never gonna be a a fall point for me. Why? That is prone to change quite a bit over time, and maybe it does work like a charm.

The things they handle with classes with GW2 got me thinking about Battlefield 2. Everytime you die in this game your able to change your class and adept to the situation. For example, you are just a assault class and you get killed by a tank, cause the assault can't kill a tank. Next time i spawn i will have something that can kill that tank in a form of another class.
While this is more limited in GW2, you are able to adept your game style. This lack of it in other MMO's is one of the reason's im not playing any MMO most of my time.

And if you got loads of friends, you can now race the dungeon :P. first one at the last boss gets a cookie

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 5:43PM DevilSei said

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@Trippin
Just adding to the Battlefield example, there is other people of course who can do the same thing. It won't matter too much if they haven't used Engineer much, an rpg is an rpg, and will beat the crap out of the tank regardless.

Besides, I've had rounds in that game where I've managed to take out several people in a building as just an engineer, which also goes to show you that a class with the capabilities for one thing, can do more, just as well as other classes.
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 7:30PM ArcherAvatar said

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@Trippin
I didn't use specific examples but, "yes" there is a passing similarity to battlefield 2. The possibility of adjusting your tactics in the face of changing circumstances - except in GW2 you will be able to do this "on the fly" instead of waiting to be defeated before a change is possible.

The other aspects of GW2 that I think will appeal to the FPS crowd are the demand for situational awareness, and the importance of mobility. These are present in GW2 and a small handful of newer "action" MMOs and have been sorely missing in previous MMO titles.

GW2 will bring "elements" of different play style together in a mix that has not been done very well, if at all, in the past... it will be interesting, to say the least, to see how members of the various communities mix together. (Yet another reason I'm extremely happy about the completely cooperative nature of the general game world in GW2, and excited about the large scale, tactical PVP offered in the WvWvW area of The Mists.)
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Posted: Jul 4th 2011 11:07PM Jeromai said

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Here’s what I’m curious about. The ease of PUGing and the length of time necessary to learn these dungeons as a group. And if there are any innovations in communication tools besides the standard chat bar, or voice-enabled microphone support.

For the first, not everyone has an easy static group to rely on. I always envy the folks with a rock solid guild and playtimes that match up. A queue system that helps PUGs get together is hopefully the bare minimum. Thing is, PUGs always take time to learn and gel together and it’s a lottery whether it happens or not. The longer this takes, the more people will be whittled out by dint of not being able to spare the time, and the pool of potential players in queue goes way down. Not to mention, my own vested interest in this is that my dungeoning time will have to be reserved for weekends where I can spare the long hours.

From hard experience over many games, PUGing is very sensitive to overall newness of the game/instances. After the majority of people have gotten what they want out of the instance/level/map, they stop. This time sensitivity is a concern for casuals who progress at a slower pace than the whole. Guild Wars 1 had henchmen/heroes to completely nullify this concern.

GW2 dungeons (explorable mode anyway) sound a whole lot like what I experienced going for the Insane campaign achievement in Alien Swarm. The last map had to be PUGed multiple times in the search for a group with the capability and willingness and time to attempt it. I eventually lucked into two Ukrainians (funky timezone, I know) who knew each other, were equally desperate for the achievement, and were willing to practice and repeat the map over and over with me. Mind you, we were allowed to play the dungeon, er… map, one short. Not held to the maximum in order to start. One wonders if GW2 will allow the same.

2-3 random PUGs came in to fill the spot over the 6+ hours we were at it. Our eventual successful group was when the one random PUGmate that we had previously been practising with came back after the space of 1-2 hours, maybe after his meal or after an errand. The three of us cheered like hell after we had practised so long we were practically glued at the hip, the random guy was pretty lucky (in that he didn’t have to commit so hardcore a time) if important in keeping us healed and I haven’t dared to try the new Brutal difficulty achievement after that experience. Nice to try once, not so nice if the same thing is going to happen for every single GW2 dungeon and if all the really cool desirable shinies are going to be gated behind those explorable dungeons. That’s grinding. I don’t do grinding.

Communications-wise, Guild Wars 1 innovated with the radar that could be scribbled on and pinged for tactics, and the modifier key that announced your player’s actions, which helped quite a bit in target calling. Will GW2 keep something similar? Will there be something even more innovative that no one else has thought of yet?

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