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Reader Comments (71)

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 9:46AM Space Cobra said

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It's sad. But one can clearly see the writing on the wall.

*Maybe* you can convince LucasArts, but this is pretty much out of SOE's hands: I am pretty sure, judging from their patches/work, they had no intent to shutter SWG. LucasArts was the reason (but, stated above, EA may have LucasArt's ear in this, too).

I am going to try and enjoy the game, even though I left before NGE. Try to get to know the community as much as I can. I am looking forward to SW:TOR (and really, my return kinda was not only a way to catch up with SWG currently, but get a Sci-Fi/SW fix other than STO). I plan to be in SW:TOR, if I enjoy it, but of course, other games, too. (Like my variety!).

Afterwards, who knows? Maybe I'll try one of the emulators out there, if they are still around. (The NGE change really IS night-and-day!)

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 10:02AM Temploiter said

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@Space Cobra: Why do you think this is out of SOE's hands? What has led you to believe this? The license is not expiring for another 18 months, why close it in 6 months? Isn't it just as likely that the populations have dwindled to a point where the meager money being made from SWG no longer outweighs the benefits of removing the NGE stone from around SOE's necks?

Every time SOE has done something bad, it seems that some people, and I'm not saying you are one of them, but some people always find a way for it not be SOE's fault.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 2:03PM Space Cobra said

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@Temploiter

If you can give a link for the SOE/LA contract expiring in 18 months, I'd be glad to read it and support that; so far, all we've heard is that the contract was up for renewal on Dec. 15th and both LA and SOE agreed to not renew.

As for out of SOE's hands, yeah, Lucas owns the rights and he draws the contracts. He has options to renew or not. He can choose not to, whatever SOE's intent, even if they want to pay him more money, he can let the contract lapse and it's done. Now, both can sit down and have a "talk", but the company in the driver's seat is LA.

As for subs: Well, you and others seem to think that there are not enough SWG subs to fill a small town, but is this really the case? Do either of us truly know the sub numbers beyond friends or personal experience or reading the most posts that go yay/nay? I can tell you, that a week before this announcement, I and others were posting on the SWG forums about coming back and asking for help/advice. Granted, that may not represent a majority, but consider Sony can be fairly ruthless and shutdown any MMO that won't make money. Again, they have to answer to stock-holders on a corporate level? Don't you think if sub numbers were under a certain percentage via profit margin they'd close an MMO? I mean, it's operating at a loss, right? Where is the corporate logic to keep a "losing MMO" open? Better to close it up immediately and call it a day rather than run years and years.

Let's also turn this around: CoH can be popularly said to have low sub numbers because it is an older game, but really, it is one of NCSoft's money makers. It has been estimated it probably has anywhere between 100,000-300,000+ subscribers and they can operate and do fine with those numbers, as far as support and content. Those numbers, while being FAR LOWER than WoW or some Asian f2p games (in Asia), are considered GOOD numbers. In other words, you do not need a million subs for an MMO to do well and, especially when SWG launched, that was the target (before WoW). Of course, when WoW launched, companies started getting greedy and wanting what WoW had (and thus, NGE happened in SWG). It's the equivalent of "copy-catting" something successful and putting it on your merchandise.

And again, if you've been on COH servers, you know that 2 servers tend to be full on peak nights. Having just subbed on SWG, there are about 3 servers that are "full" and one that is starting to get that way. They just had character transfers so this servers are high pop during prime time. If it were truly "dead", it'd be more like Warhammer (What do they have? 2-4 servers tops?). And while my pre-NGE server closed (Corbantis) I see new servers and some Europe ones, so that tells me the game had to add servers (and it recently stopped character transfers to the top 3 servers because of pop-density). SWG still has around 9 or so servers (I don't remember the exact numbering) and it holds steady. Yes, they do have "Very Light" pops on 3-4, but on the other hand, they have 4 with high pops.

We can also flip this around some and account for ALL games under SOE's banner if you want to consider population. One can sub to specific games or use the Station Pass. These games are "done" as far as development and are supported (except possibly Vanguard; SWG just announced major updates before the closing announcement). From a business perspective, if you count the subs from ALL their games put together, it's probably a real healthy number. Maybe not WoW's 12 million, but perhaps 3 million, more or less, but I'd bet on at least 3 million and maybe more. That's a healthy amount of subs.

This is not covering any "quality" SOE games may have or not, just simply stating if SWG were really "low pop", they'd be shut by now. Also delving into how Sony can operate if these games are truly losing players. In short, they can't and SOE wouldn't continue to support them. Servers cost time and money, even for Vanguard. Better to shut that down completely and do something else. But, for *whatever* reason, it survives, so it MUST be making SOME kind of money. Maybe not the preferred TONS of cash, but a steady stream that is part of a larger picture.

Just think of it from the Sony/Business side.Sony is ni a business. Their games may not be to your or my style, but someone plays them and those someones are making SOE money.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 10:42AM Yellowdancer said

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My non-IT friends often ask me why I didn't go into game design instead of boring database work. I then point them to the comment section at any game site and all is made clear. You have to really love game design to put up with some of the abuse dished out.

The game lasted for 8 years. I call that successful. A lot of people are logged in right now and enjoying the SWG experience. We need to applaud the long run and be sad that MMO's, whether we like them or not, are out of our control as gamers.

In my opinion, the real villain is LA. They own the IP and they're the ones who are taking the game away from the consumers. SOE has shown they will let a game run till there is no one left to turn out the lights(See MXO), This further backs my feelings that NGE came out of the LA camp. (Well, this and Star Wars 3D) Its all business and $$ to that company.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 11:49AM (Unverified) said

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@Yellowdancer I'm afraid to inform you that all your feelings amount to nothing more than baseless speculation.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 12:01PM Yellowdancer said

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@(Unverified)

Same can be said for most of the SOE hatred.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2011 4:36AM Shadowhawke said

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@Yellowdancer "In my opinion, the real villain is LA. They own the IP and they're the ones who are taking the game away from the consumers. SOE has shown they will let a game run till there is no one left to turn out the lights(See MXO), This further backs my feelings that NGE came out of the LA camp. (Well, this and Star Wars 3D) Its all business and $$ to that company. "

I suspect the same, and would put good money on it. But Old Republic WON'T be starting a Star Wars MMO with a clean slate; LA has now put a very foul taste in the mouths of much of the past and current SWG community.

If anyone here reading this is going to try and marginlize the SWG crwows by saying 'there's not enough of us to matter' bear in mind that Smedley said server pops weren't an issue in the closure, if the man can be trusted at least that far.

More importantly, if LA can knock off one MMO for another, there is NO guarantee they won't turn around and axe Old Republic as well, once they feel it's not living up to expectations.

If you ask me, they'll start it with a stigma. Old Republic SHOULD be known as the Next Big Star Wars MMO, but to many of us, now it's going to be known hereafter as The Game That Killed Galaxies. I've been watching forum posts, and it's obvious to some players, LA just put themselves beyond trust. If Galaxies goes down for good, I for one will never touch another LA title, and I'm not the only one to have said that.

Many of us WOULD have eventually gotten around to TOR, if not right off the bat, because in a bad economy it would take some real justification to pick up another MMO sub, but the point is, a bunch of happy SWG players might have also played over there as well. Now, they won't be seeing some of us there. LA is persona-non-grata now, and they're going to have to weigh TRO for what they might gain versus what they're going to lose.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2011 4:51AM Shadowhawke said

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@Shadowhawke

Meant to post "marginalize the SWG crowd", I hate the non-editable boards here.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 10:47AM ArtemisX said

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The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 11:21AM Furdinand said

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I think this is a real blow to the idea of persistent worlds. There are going to be people with 8 years put into this game and they are going to see it all disappear in six months. Like they never played it at all. Even people with Gameboy games can still pick up where they left off.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 11:22AM Tezcatli said

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Anyone else think that if it wasn't for the fact they have to deal with Lucasarts, they might have considered it for F2P?

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 11:48AM (Unverified) said

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@Tezcatli This is SOE, no.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 12:06PM Yellowdancer said

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@Tezcatli

Well, SOE really likes EQ2X being f2p. And they have 4 other f2p games so they like the model. EQ's tech doesn't really support cash shops. And no one played vanguard even when it was free so why bother converting it? SWG and DCUO would work great as f2p but they are p2p...so you have to imagine its the license that blocks them.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2011 12:13AM Space Cobra said

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@Yellowdancer

Ah, to throw a curveball at you, don't forget "Clone War Adventures". That's pretty much f2p.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 12:31PM StClair said

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Frankly, this is more of a official response than I ever expected. Someone on another thread compared petitions like this to going down to the company HQ and yelling at the receptionist through the automatic front doors.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 12:32PM Alph said

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Not to be a troll or anything but can we petition massively to stop posting so many SWG articles?

Sure, this one was news worthy but the others are getting really over done.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 1:46PM Palebane said

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A prelude of what's to come, in my opinion.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 1:48PM Alamar01 said

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If its going dead and petitioning won't work then release the code or something...it's not going to be used anyways. Let the players host and manage a server or multiple servers themselves. This is what I don't quite get -- when mmos die, why can't the code be turned over to the players. Instead, its like throwing out perfectly good food because you baked too much and not giving it away to charity.

Sony could go a long way in helping heal their battered image by doing something like this.

Posted: Jun 29th 2011 1:51PM Kalex716 said

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@(Unverified)

Its not up to Sony to decide. Sony doesn't own the property rights to star wars, they've been renting it. If it were up to Sony alone, i suspect they would keep it going (who wouldn't? Star Wars always makes money), but Lucas Arts (owns star wars brand) is probably asking Sony to pay much much more for it now than they have in the past (because they've sold it to another publisher as well) and Sony can't afford it anymore.



Sony would be breaking the law if they continued to service a game that had trademarked materials they no longer have the rights to.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 2:43PM krakead said

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@Alamar01 This sort of plea comes up every time an MMO goes to the wall. While it would be great if it happened, it never will. Very few companies will willingly hand over code that required millions of dollars of investment to produce. Also, there will probably be large chunks of tech that will be licensed from other companies that they cannot just give away either. In the case of SWG, there's no way that Lucas Arts, as owners of the game's IP, would allow this to happen, especially when they have a competing/replacement game nearly ready to launch.

Sadly, that is the reality of the situation :(
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