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Reader Comments (39)

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:11PM russ1984 said

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player citys and houses

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:20PM Mattx0x said

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@russ1984

Go away, there is nothing that can be done, Lucas arts won't have two competing games on the market and the license ends anyway.

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:29PM C Rose said

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Great article as usual Larry but the one thing I would interject here is that if TOR were to adapt any of those elements you described it would be narrowing it's appeal.

Let's face it, while I'm absolutely giddy with excitement for TOR, it's going to be the broad appeal, mass-market MMO that offers something for everyone and the rewards will be easily attainable for casual and hardcore players alike. This isn't to say that this philosophy is wrong, it's just safer.

I totally agree with you that there are many things I would love to see Bioware implement such as the crafting system, I strongly doubt they are going to stick their necks out there with so much hype and money on the line. And they also haven't promised us innovation, only story and quality (polish). Those things I think will be in abundance.

Basically what made SWG so beloved by it's "niche" of MMO fans, are the same things that made it's population (even at it's peak) so relatively low. In 2003 an MMO could be whatever the developers wanted it to be and it could succeed or fail based on it's inherent quality. Nowadays, for better or worse, there are expectations and companies need to "pigeon-hole" their titles well before release so that they're community knows what it's getting beforehand.

I do hope Bioware is smart enough to release that story and polish will get you sales and maybe a couple of months of subs, but depth and community-driven content is what will keep the fans in that perpetual state of subscription that MMO devs so desire.

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:39PM (Unverified) said

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@C Rose

Honestly, I'd be pleasantly surprised if SWTOR had a complex crafting system. It may just have the crafting system from WoW/Rift where you gather mats and get them made repeatedly to skill up and repeat with a new item. I know we're getting some nice storytelling but beyond that, I'm not getting my hopes up. :\
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 8:48PM hundred said

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@C Rose

well said. the more i see of the gameplay the more it makes me think of one word: SAFE. when they're spending as much money as they are on this then they have to play it safe. i would like for the game to be good for RP and have a thriving economy dictated by the players, but my gut tells me i'll play it for a month or two and get bored. which is too bad. Perhaps if the game does do well, then we will see new sci-fi games as opposed to all the fantasy games that have come and gone. and perhaps one of those will be the innovative, niche game that some of us want.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 10:37PM Kalex716 said

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@(Unverified)

Yea and its so funny, cause no MMO has really nailed crafting at all yet, but the older ones for a while seemed to be pushing more towards it IMO.

Anyone who's ever made something in real life would agree that videogame crafting doesn't even come close. Until they can marry the fundamentals with something that users can take pride in, creatively, and expressively, crafting will always be missing something very important.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 3:38AM Transientmind said

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@(Unverified)

WoW's crafting system pre-max is pretty ridiculous now. It's the definition of a grind. The recipes learned, even from drops, pre-max are a joke, the results are barely even worth dusting/vendoring, compared to quest drops at the same level.

Rift has made many improvements on this that I want to see in more MMOs:
First of all, the daily crafting quests give you a double-whammy for your 'filler' crafts (by way of the token currency), no level-dependency, and the results of crafting are almost always USEFUL. Unlike WoW's copper boots.

There's still a bit too much, "make six boots," grind going on between new recipes, but if they were to pad the progression out with more useful consumables (usually from the scrap materials), then the process flies by and minimal mats get wasted.

That's probably the pinnacle of crafting, right there, if you can achieve it... No mats wasted. Nothing vendored/AH'd/dusted as worthless crap only made to improve your skill... Gorsh. Imagine a MMO that could achieve that...
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 3:24PM C Rose said

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I'm in total agreement with all of you and Larry as well. My initial post wasn't to say that I think it would be a bad idea for TOR to adopt some of SWG's better aspects. It was only to state why I think they won't unfortunately. I would love to see, at the very least, TOR's crafting system be somewhat intricate and not the same old "craft 25 bracers just to move up in order to craft 15 boots just to be able to craft 20...".

These types of crafting systems are meaningless and empty and are missing a very large potential draw for a lot of the community. Not just crafters, who will craft regardless, but PvP and PvE junkies who if given the motivation might actually enjoy the respite from combat to delve into some fun and rewarding time-sinks like crafting could be.

I'm not saying that TOR won't surprise us, because it very well may and I hate it when I see people complain prematurely before getting their hands "dirty" and actually seeing a product. But I've closely watched TOR for many years now and from what I see so far crafting will be:

1. Standard "WoW-like" system. (Actual words from numerous TOR devs)
2. with some added surprises. (which we can only speculate at but it still has the "WoW-like" tag from #1)
3. A unique companion delegation system for crafting/gathering/diplomacy while you are leveling or even logged out of the game. This may be quite interesting.
4. Crafting "crits" have been verified too although this is only a mere perk and doesn't make the system intricate in any substantial way.

Bottom line, like Larry wrote, if they don't want to ignore this vital community/economy building element than hopefully they will devote a significant amount of development to it. Let's hope it's not just a mindless, meaningless grind to max level in order to make a few sets of gear for yourself while only the dedicated few crafters on the server making the real components that people need, but to make it a "pillar" of the game...the 5th pillar perhaps???
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:29PM Stormwalker said

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/willsmith

SWG, old and busted.

SWTOR, new hotness.

/willsmith

Posted: Jul 4th 2011 4:28PM (Unverified) said

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@Stormwalker

I lol'd
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:33PM cowboyhugbees said

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I love how everyone is coming out of the woodwork to sing the praises of SWG all of the sudden. I thought everyone hated it because of the NGE? Now everyone wants to sign petitions to save it?

I can sympathize with game developers - gamers are never happy no matter what you do.

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:52PM stealthrider said

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@cowboyhugbees

Only praise I've seen has been here. Everywhere else, people are going out of their way to crap on current SWG players.

Even an MMORPG.com columnist dismissed SWG as being "dead for years."

It's more than a little insulting, and I'm glad Massively has taken the high road.

The SWG thread on TOR's forums is filled with hatred of all things SWG, complete with dozens upon dozens of posts calling current SWG players insane and suggesting medical help. It's shameful.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 9:00PM hereafter said

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@stealthrider

The reaction to SWG on the TOR forums is mostly a response to those that denigrate TOR for not being a sandbox. For longtime followers of the game, yet another SWG player proclaiming that the game will fail without a full player housing system can get extremely annoying. TOR fans don't hate SWG, they hate SWG players complaining that TOR isn't SWG2.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 10:40PM stealthrider said

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@hereafter

Read the thread, and you'll see why that just isn't the case.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 1:27AM Sente said

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@cowboyhugbees

NGE was 6 years ago and was a rush job, sort of. In 6 years they may have done a few changes.

A big mistake 6 years ago does not necessarily mean that the game of today is the same.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 4:17AM RedWolf said

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@cowboyhugbees

I think the best comparison I've seen is the situation where your ex-partner passes away. On the one hand, you've hated them for years, on the other someone you once cared deeply for is gone forever.

Personally, I really do hope that one day Raph Koster will find a rich billionaire somewhere to fund another sandbox virtual world. In terms of pure potential, I believe SWG was the best game I've ever played. It was everywhere else that the game fell flat due to being rushed out too early.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:39PM Darkmoone said

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Non-combat classes, dancers etc. Mineral scanning and harvesting. Clothing.

Posted: Jun 28th 2011 8:27PM Vgk said

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@Darkmoone Let's change the game into a themepark while we're at it, non-combat classes are interesting in Sandboxes, but TOR is going to be a themepark having non combat classes like dancers would get boring since the community will be based around the 4 pillars

Mineral scanning and harvesting can be considered to be the gathering professions so that's there-ish

You'll have armor, it'll have stats yes but you could get a set of gear with bad stats that ends up looking good together and use that, people in WoW did it to look like Stormwind Guards and had other nice looking item sets
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 4:42AM RedWolf said

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@Vgk Gathering and mineral harvesting are very different - in SWG once you scanned the source of a particular resource you would put harvesters there to gather it while you were off doing other things.

The same same thing with production - once you loaded schematics, resources, energy and upkeep into a factory it would be completely automated.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 8:01PM Rayko said

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@russ1984

Save it ? I have been waiting for it to die since it came out.

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