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Reader Comments (89)

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 2:54AM blackcat7k said

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This is quite strange. It's like CCP doesn't understand the concept of what a game is. Then again this whole industry seems to be missing an important core value:

When your game becomes MONEY SPENT = POWER then the credibility of the game goes completely down the drain.

Imagine a professional football game where the coaches of the team just threw wads of bills at the referee to change the outcome of a call. Would the fans stand for that?

Why do these companies think it should be different in a game where players are competing against one another?

I'm not getting something: I should have known things would eventually degenerate down to this point, but it's still disheartening to see.

It used to be PLAYER SKILL = POWER. Then over time it slipped to TIME SPENT = POWER. Now I see this new beast of MONEY SPENT = POWER. I wonder what's next, and how long will players continue to stand for it?

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 3:12AM Sorithal said

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@blackcat7k

Seems more and more companies are falling into a "more money from the players > players actually enjoying our game" approach. One of the easier ways to do that in games is make it easy for players to get on top via real money, since there's always going to be some die-hard morons who want to be on top so badly that they'll spend a ton of money just to be the best.

Another way is to just tack on micro-transactions to a game that already has a high purchase fee and/or monthly subscription fee. Which really irritates me since the monthly subscriptions SHOULD be enough to support the company and such (even if it's not millions like in WoW - games with only thousands like SWG, LotRO (pre-f2p), and others run just fine).

Or maybe the reason CCP is doing this is because they're unable to keep everything on their plate with just the monthly subscriptions and such alone *shrug*.

Oh well, I'm just glad I've never cared for EvE.

Still pissed though because of what this could entail for the WoD MMO.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 4:26AM Rodj Blake said

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Watching CCP having an internal debate on micro-transactions is like watching an old friend slowly die.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 4:32AM IxForres said

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Going off the metadata, this document dates back to April. The 14th, to be specific. That's when it was first created, at least.

http://pastie.org/2110039 is the metadata I pulled out of the full version.

http://assets.talkunafraid.co.uk/gig_images.tar contains all the images found in the file.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 5:52AM (Unverified) said

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Some games (with microtransactions) such as League of Legends is still largely PLAYER SKILL = POWER.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 6:25AM Zotzs8 said

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I was an original EVE day one player for whom it took six months to realize that there was CCP corruption supporting factions and i promptly left the game. I laughed years later (can u believe it took years) to finally uncover the CCP employee corruption. My heart bleeds for the EVE player base and their gaming investment. But how can PC gamers continue to support CCP pushing Dust 514 to a console and basically say pound dirt to the PC community that has supported them all these years. With CCP's established lack of character how can anyone be surprised at microtransactions and further how can anyone play any (FTP or Sub) game where u pay microtransactions to win or gain advantage. So disappointed and frankly disgusted with EVE.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 9:30AM ElfLove said

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I think for some... definitively for me...it's the sock that CCP has gone this route at all. I've always seen EVE as a game for the hardcorest of hardcore players, the elite of the elite in terms of MMOs. it's never been a game I've been able to get into personally but I've always admired it from a safe distance.

To see it not only get a cash shop, but a cash shop that makes real clothing look cheap...yea that's a complete shocker.

I mean I play Perfect World and for 85 bucks I could buy every single piece of fashion clothing in there store...and buy tonnes of lotto boxes with the leftover change. Hell in EQ2 I could buy nearly every single house item and all the hose plushies for 85 dollars...oh and at least half of the mounts.

I really think it's the sticker shock that has most people reeling....and really you can't blame them... especially the long time players.






Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 10:25AM Fire Walk With Me said

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@ElfLove It is also the feeling of continual dissappointment for a game they love. 3rd Party app fees, cash shop, overpriced vanity items, valid rumors of pay to win features, etc etc etc.

None of us are getting any positive news any longer either because they dont have any or they have a PR dept that would make Sony blush.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 12:07PM Luk said

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@ElfLove
I agree, "it's the sock" :)
I really love reading about EvE, playing not so much.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 12:32PM ElfLove said

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@Luk

*giggle* Indeed...a big sock to some, and a small sock to others. *wink*
Massive needs an edit button...badly. o_O

Really though I can't even believe that CCP has gone this route. For years I'd hear about EVE and how it was the most hardcore MMO ever...even more hardcore than the original EverQuest. How the top players were virtual bad asses, and CCP really listened to it's players and cared about their input.

Now it's 85 dollars for a virtual eye piece....That could buy me every single mount in Perfect World International. o_O

I guess the almighty dollar wins out in the end.

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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 12:59PM Fire Walk With Me said

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@ElfLove Not at all, people who have purchased the items have become marked men in the game.

The almighty dollar will make everyone lose in this case.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 2:31PM SocksForYou said

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The single best thing to come out of this document (so far) is a thread on the Eve forums about John Turbefield, a member of the CCP team who speaks against microtransactions that influence gameplay.

He's already become a hero on the forums and people are (half-jokingly) photoshopping his face into famous works of religious art. I was dying laughing going through this thread last night. MUST READ

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1534841

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 2:53PM Nef said

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There's still a lot that needs detailing before I have any solid reactions to the PDF.

Ships being sold... What kind? If we're just talking those crappy little things they give out occasionally, I don't care.

Items being sold... What kind? If it's stuff like the snowball launchers, I don't care.

The WoD bit about buying power is a bit worrisome, but, again, we don't even really know what mechanics or game play will be like -- or if they're even close to being finished. It could mean nothing, it could be a big problem -- if it is, they'll find out when people stop playing and paying.

Still, not enough details.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 3:02PM Harley Dude said

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I have to laugh at some of the outrage on the forums by people who in the same post talk about their PLEX. Does it really matter if someone buys a ship from CCP or buys PLEX from CCP and then sells it for 400,000,000 ISK and *then* buys a ship? P2W is P2W. Anyone complaining about this but has bought or sold PLEX needs a reality check.

FYI I think MTs in subscription based games are BS, but it is what it is. Enough people buy from the cash shops that it is the future, unless something drastic happens *really* soon. Personally wish they'd just raise the monthly rate if $15 a month isn't enough and leave me the eff alone with trying to nickel and dime me.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 4:56PM Kyzgar said

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@Harley Dude
The difference is that all of the ships and weapons are built by players in the game, so even if you buy a PLEX for real money and sell it to a player for ISK, that ISK won't buy anything that a player didn't find or construct, and the PLEX itself could only be sold to someone else or cashed in for 30 days of playtime. The players are supposed to control the market in EVE. If CCP goes ahead and adds ships/weapons to the new store that can't be constructed by the players, it breaks the model that they've been using since the game launched, and that's not good.

I'm not against having the cash shop, but this implementation is wrong. The prices are WAY too high, especially for a P2P game. There should be a way to obtain similar or equivalent items through standard gameplay. Also, if they want to go this route, they should add a F2P model (basically limited the same way as Trial accounts are), and give subscribers a monthly AU allowance.

One thing that's obviously wrong is that a PLEX trades for 3500 AU, because when they conceived the idea PLEXes were selling for 350M ISK. The price of a PLEX has already inflated to 400M ISK, which should be a clear indication that it's not right.

A monocle from the AU store is equivalent to $70. You could subscribe for six months for that. A pair of pants is $20. You could get a *real* pair of pants instead. They really need to divide their prices by 10. If 5 people will pay $20 for an item that costs them $0 to spawn, but 500 people will pay $2 for it, then it should be pretty obvious what they need to do. By lowering the prices they'll make more money, since these are just virtual goods.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 5:29PM Harley Dude said

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@Kyzgar

The solution to the stuff in the MT store being way too expensive (which I agree with) is to not buy it. Capitalism works.

As for the ships coming from the economy vs coming from CCP, some people seem to be saying MTs suck, unless they personally benefit...they want it both ways. It's still me using IRL cash paying to win whether I buy it straight from CCP or have a player as a middle man. I get the feeling if the ships EVE adds to the store are easily identified as cash shop ships, we'll see a rash of suicide gankings on those players, just like I see threads with people talking about ganking people with monocle avatars.
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Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 4:18PM Karth said

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HAHAHA Check this tread. Its as good as the other one!
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1534841

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 10:19PM Kalex716 said

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Well, their was a couple years ago when their was a big issue with an employee who played the game who ended up exploiting things big time.

I wonder if company policy is that no one is allowed to play EvE at all anymore, because these stupid items they have up are so ridiculously over valued, and useless (you can't even flaunt them in others faces) that they must not play their own game. Thats the only explanation. Who could possibly quanitfy the value of those ugly horrible couple of things up they had in the store.

Either that, or they put those up just to test that the features are working, not realizing that we would actually think those prices were serious.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2011 11:14PM (Unverified) said

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Context much????

"Not all virtual purchases [in EVE Online] will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."

The very next ling says "The devil is in the details". Which mean you can't take that first line at face value.

Posted: Jun 24th 2011 6:36AM Existentialist said

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[UPDATE: The document's authenticity has been confirmed by CCP Pann from CCPs PR department. Massively has a hard-hitting interview in the works with CCP Zulu on the issue]

evenews24 breaks the story and you're the one that gets the interview.

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