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Reader Comments (54)

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 8:55AM Rowlf said

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@meancheez

It's quite possible to have vertical content w/o having to reach it with a flying mount. Stairs, elevators, portals.... heck even catapults could bring you to a place above the ground.
Unlocking that kind of particular content can be done in numerous ways as well.

Anyways to me, the immersion becomes greater if you havo to travel through it. I.e. even most of dalaran could be skipped just by flying directly to where you needed to be in the city.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 8:55AM Rowlf said

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@Mynsc

Hehe, for a moment I thought I made a double post :)
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 8:58AM Mynsc said

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@Rowlf
Lol yeah, I was wondering when did I change my nickname to Rowlf. :D
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:14AM meancheez said

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@meancheez

You both make good points, but I'll be honest, once I hit max level the constant ground combat starts to get old. Especially if I'm working on daily quests, I don't want to have to fight through the same groups of mobs each day just to hit my goal.

Story quests don't have to be broken by flying mounts, either. Obviously designers have to be aware of the players' abilities, so if they design a cool quest or series of encounters, just deactivate flying mounts for that area.

And regarding scripted transportation, I guess I just enjoy the freedom a flying mount offers.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 8:46AM Mynsc said

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They're nice for vanity and for quick transportation, but the negative effects are much bigger in my opinion.

They make world PvP almost non-existent and way less fun, they make questing too easy and hurt the immersion / role-play part and they make the world feel a lot more empty, since you rarely meet friends or foes while in the air. Not to mention the world designers have to restrict themselves to maps that cant be exploited by flying, so they have less options at their disposal (walls for example become utterly useless).

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:34AM DarkWalker said

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@Mynsc
Sincerely:

- I love the fact they let me avoid most PvP altogether. While I really dislike World PvP, I'm often stuck playing in PvP servers due to RL friends that wouldn't ever consider rolling on PvE servers.

- If you want to resurrect World PvP, find a way to let players that are unwilling to do PvP leave the PvP servers, a way for players that want to PvP but are on PvE servers to go to the PvP ones, and a way for PvP and PvE players to actually play together if they want, all at the same time and free for the involved players. World PvP will never reach it's full potential while there are players that don't want to participate.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:41AM Mynsc said

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@DarkWalker
Sooo, what you're saying is that, in order to resurect world PvP, Blizzard should find a way to make your friends hate you ? :D
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 8:54AM KDolo said

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If your game has content players want to skip over, you should think more about playing games that don't have content people want to skip over.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:10AM Dumac said

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I didn't mind them in WoW but they should be only high level prestige rewards. Because once you've seen most of the world and it's content it shouldn't be a problem to skip over it with your flying mount.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:01AM DarkWalker said

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@Dumac
At first they were. Back in BC, players had to have reached max level (70) to purchase the flight skill, and spend 1500G (which took quite a while to farm back then, before Quel'danas was implemented). Normal flying mounts were also slower than epic ground mounts, meaning that getting between two points in mostly flat terrain was actually faster on the ground mount.

There were epic flying mounts, of course, which were already faster than epic ground mounts, but the 5000G to get the skill was a quite huge amount those days.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:22AM (Unverified) said

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My problem with them is they are a lazy way for fast travel with no chance of encountering enemies. Instead of making content more exciting from point A to point B, the game lets you fly over said boring content... which screams to me about it being a lazy way for the game makers to skip remaking or fixing said content.

Make flying mounts? Sure, but make some flying enemies and have mounted combat. Make that tower mentioned earlier have ranged mobs that shoot you down with arrows and magic.

MMOs are fairly combat based, so make the mounts incorporated into that, not a way around it.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:26AM (Unverified) said

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I personally think its rather narrow-minded of someone who does not enjoy flying mounts in game to say universally that it dilutes gameplay. Assuming the setting of an MMO you have to keep in mind that its a gamespace populated by many people who enjoy many different things. What is fun for you may be dull for someone else and vice versa. Some of you complain about its impact on pvp but really I don't see how it would impact PvP for those who WANT to PvP. I'm sure they know full well where to go to to get their fights.

As for PvE content I do believe that a given developer can funnel the experience in such a way as to make it challenging for those who choose to come in by air as well as by land. Nasties around the objective in the air as well as on the ground is one way. Another would be to simply make mounts unavailable in combat or to gimp their usefulness (e.g. slowing down the speed bonus given a la Champions). I just think they are a different way for players to experience the worlds developers create and done right can be every bit as exciting to the audience they are geared towards as ground content is to everyone else.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:30AM (Unverified) said

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Well it truly depends on the game, in WoW it makes sense, there's a huge world that would make grown man cry for wanting go from one end of it to the other even at times there are transportations implemented other than one's mount. it no way means one wants to skip content, and if they do, it's their right to do so. I love flying mounts in wow because they're there to make things smoother after hitting a certain level, old days it was at cap lvl now it makes sense when someone wants to do more exploration and have more freedom going where ever the hell they want, when ever the hell they want and as fast as the game allows them to go. So I'm pro flying mounts, and I don't get those who're nagging about it, it certainly don't look like an issue to me. Freedom is not an issue, it's our right.

Sometimes people just need to get somewhere as fast as possible, it's nothing bad really, they have seen enough of it throughout their months of subscription, it's no big deal. Just like real life, when you first move out to some place you want to see everything that the environment has to offers, roads, shops, views, any location of interest, so you explore, but after a while, it loses its charm and you pass by everything hardly notice the surroundings.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:48AM Tizmah said

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I love flying. I enjoyed in most in Vanguard, plus ship sailing! I can see the point of view by some people saying the flying can break immersion. This isn't true at all when it is handled right. With flying, the world does feel smaller because you see everything before you from a higher perspective. At ground level, the world looks gigantic! It's all a matter of perspective.

Flying shouldn't be given early on in my opinion. It's something you should game after considerable effort in an MMO. That's why I am not to big of a fan of Superhero MMOs. You fly straight from the beginning and you see all there is to see in a matter of seconds

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:39AM DarkWalker said

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In my case, I hate wasting time. Long, uneventful travel times (such as following the roads on a ground mount) really tick me off. I also really dislike non-consensual PvP.

So, I love flying mounts, but not exactly for the flying part. In a game that allowed me to freely teleport between a sufficiently comprehensive network of interest points, without non-consensual PvP, I wouldn't miss flying mounts at all.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:07AM Irem said

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I never get tired of flying mounts. If I had to pick one thing I really, really miss from WoW, it's that. I'll never see eye-to-eye with people who are actively against them (or even regular ground mounts)--I just love the idea of being able to fly so much that I can't imagine how anyone could not want it. It makes me sad to hear people say that it killed immersion for them, because to me it sounds like they were only appreciating the world because they were forced to look at it on the way to the next objective, and speedy flight took that away from them because they could no longer justify sticking around long enough to look at anything. In WoW, I used to spend hours and hours exploring on my flying mount, and I never felt like it cheapened the experience or the world for me.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:08AM goldenhornet said

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I don't need a mount, I'm a super hero! I've been flying since level 6 :D

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:38AM Jeromai said

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If flying mounts kill gameplay, it's the fault of the game developers for not anticipating them in their design or telling the level designers to build accordingly. The sky could be full of interesting things, from enemies to architecture. The level design could anticipate the vertical dimension a little more.

I loved the flying mount I picked up in WoW when I finally got to level 60. When I landed on the top of the tower to pick off a quest mob, and then rose back again, I cackled. It was a clever use of the strategy that I now had. If the designers didn't want me to do that, then they shouldn't have made it openly accessible from the top.

I'd point out Aion's level architecture as something that took flight into account from the very beginning. Most of the lands where flight is limited (for strategic purpose, despite player whining) is made for clever glides and platforming. The Abyss, which was full flight capable (but still required landing now and then, again for strategy) has a lot more three dimensional levels. One was constantly looking above and below as well as left and right in order not to be surprised by a flight of Daevas of the opposing faction.

City of Heroes has always had fully controllable 3D flight as an option. Dive-bombing from the sky has been a favorite strategy of blasters since they were able to hover. Mobs can knock you out of flight. There were the Rikti motherships which were a fun flight-only player diversion. There are Nemesis sniper mobs that can reach out and touch you even as you fly by thinking you're safe. Flight has been used as a perfectly valid in-combat strategy against some big bads, including Lord Recluse. Travel-wise, plenty of skyscrapers and roofs and interesting ledges to land on, and Grandville's Spider City was so vertical one practically needed to fly or at least a flight pack for quality of life.

Empty, point A to point B without interruption, skippable skies are a design fault. They don't have to be.

As a player, I like flying. And I like cool mounts. Moar epic looking flying mounts please.

If you don't want me to skip content, then PUT content where you know the flying mounts are going to be.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:36PM ThePenIsMightier said

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@Jeromai

"I loved the flying mount I picked up in WoW when I finally got to level 60. "

Well we know who is a pretty new player, don't we.

Some of us picked a PVP realm for the possibility of PVP.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:55AM (Unverified) said

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I was ridiculously excited when I was at Blizzcon '09 and they announced old world flying mounts.

And I admit, I love flying around in my druid's bird form, because it feels very natural for me to be doing so.

But after the shiny new awesome wore off, I saw what those flying mounts had really cost.

When I play WoW, there's just no immersion anymore (which is not due only to flying mounts obviously). It's all about convenience now. I fly over treetops and don't see detailed zones anymore. I even decided to drop to my ground mount and ride just to try to feel immersed again, but (I'm assuming due to the guild mount speed increase) I just race across the ground at a totally unrealistic feeling speed, and aside from /walk there's no way to slow down.

I left a couple months after Cata because I just couldn't shake my burnout. My friends RPing lured me back in recently, because when I RP I can actually feel immersed. I tried leveling my 80 rogue, but I just don't *feel* the game anymore, and I was not pleased to find out that upping my lock picking skill requires me to simply level up or go to the trainer. Seriously? Has it come to this? Players need to grind dailies for weeks/months, but lock picking skillups were just SO much of a drag it was removed? /sigh

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