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Reader Comments (116)

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 9:32PM Zyrusticae said

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I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you.

I believe you are coming from an extremely biased point of view. I believe you are using selective memory. I believe you are also looking at biased sources. Therefore, I believe your claims are without any sort of strong basis and are mostly pulled out of thin air.

Remember that using the people who actively post to articles like these is a self-selecting sample and is hardly useful as a metric. As far as actual *articles* written by respected "journalists" (I use that term very, very loosely) go, it's hardly 9/10 being overwhelmingly positive. This very article alone confirms this. In fact, many of the articles I've read make minimal mention of the combat - only to say "it's like WoW, but..." or simply confirming that it works. Which is good, honestly, since their job right now is just to report and not editorialize or opinionate. But it makes your claims seem really specious.

There are plenty of people who are pre-emptively calling Bioware out on it, and quite frankly chances are fairly high that a lot of them aren't going to even bother with the game simply out of principle. I don't think that invalidates their opinion at all, as the impressions so far all say the same thing - it's cookie-cutter MMO combat. And if that's your thing, fine, but don't try to sell it as the way it should be.
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Posted: Jun 15th 2011 10:09AM (Unverified) said

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@Zyrusticae

Sorry, but it seems that YOU are the one that is extremely biased. I've read all the reports, and yes, it really is THAT much people that liked the combat. I'd post a link if I knew that you'd come back here which I doubt.

It's kind of insulting and trolling to just call someone biased out of the blue so I'm going to return the favor and call you a SWTOR hater and troll.
And yes, i have the links and reports to show that you're the one that is actually misinformed and biased.

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Posted: Jun 15th 2011 10:13AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

And btw, like I said, it's just how the actual combat gameplay feels like as experience to those who actually PLAYED it, it's all fine that people who never played it can say 'ooh, but it's same old same old blabla' but I'm going for people, normal convention visitors and game reviewers what they all collectively have to say in their impressions and reports.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:26PM cliktea said

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I'm interested because it's Star Wars and I'm intrigued by the idea of focusing on a story and how this will work with MMO and why I shouldn't just play a single player game that is free monthly. I'm also wondering if this will be an engaging story that really immerses me or if it's just a glorified, clever way of telling me to go kill 10 rats and return

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:33PM Beltyra said

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I really don't understand why everyone who is looking at MMOs right now is demanding "Viva La Revolution!" and putting all sorts of weird expectations on things.

If you step back and look at allllll of gaming and especially look at E3, you'd understand that we as consumers clearly don't work that way. We've been playing a microscopic variant of the same damn games for 20 years. There really are so very few ways to experience games and the best Devs can hope to make is add MAYBE one new feature or take one unique spin to an old process.

Why are MMO players so up in arms now and for the last year making Devs work 10x harder for something revolutionary and then demand it be free-to-play.

If you think I'm wrong, try and tell me you gamers wont be buying the new Zelda, Modern Warfare 3, Halo 4, Mass Effect 3, Battlefield 3, Uncharted 3, Need for Speed, Driver: SF, Mario Kart 3d...or a billion other sequels and old IPs.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 3:21PM Borick said

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@Beltyra I will not buy or play the new Zelda, Modern Warfare 3, Halo 4, Mass Effect 3, Battlefield 3, Uncharted 3, Need for Speed, Driver: SF, Mario Kart 3d...

Loved Halo. Couldn't finish Halo 2. I can say similar things about each of the games above.

I do, however, buy indie games of all sorts, but I'm just a weirdo, I suppose. I have known what I want in a game since EverQuest. It's just taking the world a damned long time to come around to my demands.

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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 3:32PM Beltyra said

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@Borick
Maybe not you, but there are those who have said expecations of what appeals to them, or play only indie, or want X features in games, and DO NOTHING ABOUT IT other than whine on forums or blast every single new game that comes out.

At minimum you vote with your dollars and have input into what gets made. Devs now more than ever listen to fans when making games or making improvements, however they don't want to listen to people who just complain about how everything is so mainstream, and cloned and nothing is original and their ironic neckbeard is so hip and they only play games that are so new they dont even exist yet.

Like I said, maybe thats not you, but there sure are a lot of people 'round here who seem to go into restaurants, look over a menu, then spit in the waiters face for not having "food" that they want, who then storm out in a long winded rant.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:56PM Equillian said

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Has anyone stopped to think maybe.. just MAYBE some of us are looking forward to a "WoW in Space" MMO? Wow is fine and dandy, we like the game, but a lot of people are just sick of the world (or in my case, fantasy in general.)

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

or should I say Hokey worlds and Pop Culture refrences are no match...

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:04PM Jade Effect said

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Bioware never said they are making a revolutionary game. I don't get why people are acting all surprised now. It's the same kind of "wtf" moment when people start whining CCP made Dust 514 a console game, when CCP had already made the decision known ages ago.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:14PM Valentina said

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I wrote a long post on the last ToR topic that got so much attention, I will say again that people have a very unrealistic expectation on what qualifies to label "revolutionary". This is the very first MMO that has put genuine storytelling, choice, characters to join you or make enemies (differing on your decisions and alignment that you, yourself define. NOT the game). This is the very first MMO where we see all of this plus the mechanic where your group is included in decision making and the way the story plays out for quests. The quests will not always have the same outcome every time you level a character if you choose different ways to go about handling each situation.

The MMO genre has been so far behind the times, the standard run to the ! and click accept at the textbox method does not qualify as top notch storytelling, or really even gameplay as far as I am concerned. I don't know what people expect out of mission objectives, though. We don't know what they're like past the first early levels of the game, but you've got to have objectives. Star Wars heroes do pretty "typical" things in the movies and books such as rescuing people whether it be a village from sand people, or the Queen of Naboo from assassination attempts. They make enemies, friends, people who join their cause, they fall in love and they save things. That's what happens in Star Wars and just about every other epic or opus out there.

As far as the game mechanics go, BioWare never ever ever ever claimed to change much of anything other than epic storytelling, choice and that combat is to be more choreographed in order to fit the Star Wars IP. What do you expect combat to play like? God of War? Good luck finding that in an MMO anytime in the next several years considering it requires the internet to play and there's a little thing called latency. And no, TERA does not play like that so I'm sorry to throw anyone under the bus expecting something revolutionary in that games combat which is really the only thing it had going for it.

What kind of end-game are ya'll expecting? We don't even know a big chunk of what the end-game for SWTOR will be other than flashpoints and raids being a part of it which once again, fits exactly what happens in the Star Wars IP. There's still stuff BioWare hasn't talked about and might not talk much about until the game is about to come out. We've got space combat, real storytelling where you actually have a 'voice' and make a decision and will be hard pressed to have the same outcome every play through which is something we haven't seen in an MMO until now, and it is multiplayer and fits perfectly with the MMO genre the way they've got it set up. We've got 17 planets and yes they are enormous so I don't know where the "worlds are not as big and impressive as I would have hoped" thing came from. They're quite large except for very early on and quite open. We've got our own ships/housing, we've got a cast of characters who join us, fight with us, hate us, want to destroy us and/or make out with us. We've got darkside/lightside alignment based off your actions in the game both from start to end that changes the way you're responded to and the way the game worlds and characters react to your characters. We've got multiplayer dialogue and decisions to make even on the more "standard" quests/missions. And more that we've not even heard about yet, not to mention what will be coming with their updates and expansions. This stuff was NEVER happening until BioWare announced SWTOR and what they planned to do with it. And I don't know about any of you but I've not seen any of this in an MMO (except maybe the alignment thing in swg, even though it's really incomparable), and I would challenge you all to name an MMO out now, or in the near future that will have all of this. I can tell you right now Guild Wars 2's storytelling is NOT as deep or involved if the demonstration I saw a while back is any indication.

Revolutionary by definition means to bring about change within something. As I mentioned before, none of this stuff was talked about until BioWare started talking about what they were doing with SW:TOR. Suddenly we've got other studio's developing games with some of this stuff and we will probably not see the text box situation much in the future from now on. So that pretty much makes this game qualify as revolutionary by definition.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:21PM NeverDeath said

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@Puremallace

LOL win.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:30PM Lafajet said

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People, if I may? Thank you.

We all have different views and different opinions on any game. Some of us are tired of the WQ/WoW paradigm of MMO gameplay and want something else. Some of us only want the context for those mechanics to be fresher so that we can care about what we do ingame again. Still some of us are happy with things the way they are. These are all fully reasonable stances towards the current state of the MMO business.

People will play this game. Some will enjoy it, and others will not. Most of us will not know which it is until we actually get to play the game for a good amount of time. If this game is not what you wanted out of a Bioware Star Wars MMO that is unfortunate, but arguing over if this game will succeed or fail this far before it comes out and before anyone (not under NDA) has had the chance to get significant hands on time with the game is, in my opinion, butting heads for the sake of butting heads.

I will play this game. I probably won't have a solid grasp of how I feel about the game until I've invested somewhere between 50-200 hours with the game (I'm still not sure how I feel about RIFT nigh on 100 hours in). Basically, what I'm trying to get at is if you are interested in the game and not sure if you'll like it or no, try it out when you have the chance and then formulate your opinion for yourself. That's how true informed opinions are formed.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:37PM Myopic Aardvark said

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I'm still going to play it.

1) MMO gameplay that I enjoy across multiple games right now? Check.
2) Star Wars story, done by the folks who have written fantastic stories (and even the lacklustre DA2 had a better story than most)? Check
3) A world which will, over the years, add plot threads, areas and new secrets to find? Check

Sounds like a winner to me. I've seen people claim their MMO is different from all the others for years now - don't think I've ever once seen that claim proven true. (Refinements, rather than new).

Multiple Star Wars stories, history, lightsabers, blasters and the Bioware humour factor? They can just take my money from me from now until I tire of it.

Lifetime sub EA? Please?

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 2:02PM cliktea said

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When I go back to this http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/04/23/swtor-combat-explained/ and then I look at the actual gameplay from leaked beta videos and the E3 demos I can see why people are kind of feeling bummed.

It's an age old thing in gaming, companies hype their systems and try to create buzz and naive gamers swoon and oogle over the words and descriptions then turn into murderous heathens once the game is actually shown.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 2:37PM (Unverified) said

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@cliktea
Yeah, wow, I really do feel let down now after watching that vid. Haven't tried it myself, but there is a lot of hype in there. Then coming back to some of these impressions and them saying it is basically like WoW, that is a downer for sure. But I was never really interested in this in the first place. I am mostly looking to GW2 at this point.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 2:47PM (Unverified) said

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@cliktea

Not defending TOR or anything, but RPS has a pretty biased view on anything that's not by Valve. They also shit on any game at any chance they can after they've disliked it.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 2:48PM cliktea said

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@(Unverified) My link has nothing to do with RPS shitting on SWTOR.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 2:11PM (Unverified) said

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I suppose that this was meant to read "Duel" not Dual?
Confused

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 5:38PM Jef Reahard said

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No, it was meant to read exactly like it reads.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 5:39PM Jef Reahard said

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@Jef Reahard

Eh, stupid comment system. Dual articles/duel of the fates was what I was going for. A bad pun I suppose.
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