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Reader Comments (116)

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:34AM Ehra said

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@jslim419

You're right. The MMO genre is always going to stay exactly like it is years from now, because obviously what we've got works fine and there's no incentive for any developers to change. Just look at the JRPG; still going strong after all of these years!
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:22PM (Unverified) said

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@jslim419 huh?

the games being talked about that are trying new things are way past half way through development. They are being developed BECAUSE they are different. GW2, TERA, and Archeage are risky, but they will have a huge payday if they pull it off. no risk, no reward.
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Posted: Jun 16th 2011 10:36AM (Unverified) said

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@Ehra

To you it's boring because you're burnt out and apparently hate the current batch of MMO's. To others who haven't gotten burnt out on the current MMO's, look at it more objectively. Those people realise that an MMORPG doesn't need to be super innovative to be FUN, and also they realise that if they don't enjoy an MMO, that doesn't mean that other people can't enjoy that MMO.
After all, more than 15 million gamers are still playing one of those top 'boring' MMO's, which they wouldn't do if it was as boring to them as it is to you.

Simple, basic logic.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:44AM (Unverified) said

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I'm loving everyone's dismay at how SWtOR is *gasp* just another MMO. It's silly to actually read some of the criticisms, though. "I had to push 1,2,1,2,3." lol orly? Like 90% of every other MMO? What were some people expecting here...seriously?

I could have told people that there would be collection 10 X and kill 20 Y quests. I could have told people that there would be pushing of hotbar keys...but who actually thought this game would be that different in the first place?

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:05AM Controlled Chaos said

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@(Unverified)

A lot of people, considering that it was Bioware and EA who were hyping this game as the next big thing in MMOs, that it would change the industry, that the 'grind' would disappear...

People already have extremely high expectations for Bioware. They just raised their own bar high enough that even they couldn't get over it well enough to get people thinking that TOR is revolutionary.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:16AM Zethe said

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@Controlled Chaos

A lot of people thought they wouldn't be using 1,2,3,4 for skills and having to kill things in a mmorpg?

A lot of people are stoopid.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:36AM bobfish said

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@Controlled Chaos

BioWare has never pretended, hinted or otherwise implied that SWTOR's combat or main mechanics would be anything other than STANDARD WOW FAIR!

People have built up their own expectations and twisted SWTOR into some delusion based on their own dreams rather than the facts presented.

Even before they announced that the MMO was Star Wars they were quite clear in that it was going to work like WoW.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:41AM Ehra said

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@Zethe

I don't know about you, but the MMOs I currently play aren't about standing in one spot spamming 3 skills and a leveling experience that's full of filler "go kill 20 X because we need more forgettable, disposable content to speed up the leveling process" quests.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:25PM Beltyra said

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@Ehra
Oh so you grind grind grind without a purpose then? If not, what "game" is it that you play that ISN'T like this? That you so conveniently decided to not mention...
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:58PM Ehra said

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@Beltyra

Let's see, firs there's Guild Wars which is full of missions with their own story, objective, typically has some kind of ingame graphics cinematic, and never delve into "kill X monsters and you win!" Or if PvE's not my thing then I can jump right into PvP and unlock everything I need through that.

Then you've got the combat which is more about positioning and timing than anything, and anyone who's going 12121231212124 is going to get absolutely slaughtered. Hugging corners so you can't be hit by projectiles while being in range of your group mates, switching weapon sets on the fly depending on what damage type your enemy is attacking you with, what armor type they have, if you're a monk and a mesmer is spamming energy denial spells on you. Heck, energy hiding against a Mesmer in PvP ALONE is more involved than the 1212312124 spam that people here claim is all MMO combat is about.

Then there's Dark Age of Camelot where I can level and gear myself almost entirely through PvP, where, again, positioning and smart use of your abilities, cooldowns, and charges is what wins you fights, not standing in one spot spamming the same 4 buttons while the guy you're fighting does the same. Play a Paladin and try twisting your chants, maintaining bodyguard on your healer/caster, getting off side positional stuns, interrupting their casters, and managing all of your cooldowns and tell me that 12121231212124 spam is all MMOs have to offer in the combat department.

Just because a game has a hotbar doesn't mean it has to play like WoW.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:19PM rhorle said

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@Ehra

If you think that WoW doesn't have to deal with postioning and timing and is simply "push 12311231" then you have no clue about the game and its end game mechanics. Try doing any raid while just standing there mashing buttons and tell me how that works out, hell try doing most 5-man boss fights just standing there ignoring the world around you.

Every mmo is about the rotations. It doesn't matter how you hide it but you'll always be expected to use abilities at certain times and rinse repeat. Its easier balancing and its just the nature of fights that last beyond 30 seconds. And any good mmo is about timing and positioning of your character and those rotations. Because good mmo's limit tank and spank fights because they are boring. They have their place, but just not very often.
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:35PM Ehra said

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@rhorle

"Every mmo is about the rotations. It doesn't matter how you hide it but you'll always be expected to use abilities at certain times and rinse repeat."

Uh, no. You should try playing DAoC, a game that came out a decade ago. There's no such thing as a "rotation," and "using abilities at certain times" is pretty much the exact opposite of a "rotation." It's the difference between doing the same thing all the time and using a wide set of different abilities for different circumstances.

Until you've played these games at a high level, you really won't understand the difference. Yes WoW has positioning and timing, but it's pretty watered down when if someone's got you beat on positioning you can just screw it up with skills that punt them out of the way. As for timing, I always thought it was a little funny when people in WoW talk about how hard it is to interrupt a 1.5 cast time spell while the person is fake casting, when players in GW have to figure out how to interrupt 0.75 cast time spells or faster, without the benefit of having interrupts that have no cast time and are off the "global cooldown."

A character in Wow only has so many things it can juggle (partially because Blizzard has watered down rated PvP so much by removing so many items and abilities from it); a DAoC character has much more to worry about in addition to a more unforgiving casting/interruption system (positional styles alone add more to combat that a WoW player doesn't have to worry about unless they're playing a rogue, and even then they don't have such a tight window for timing because you can bunny hop all over the place without it affecting your chance to miss). GW has less "things" to worry about, but what it does have are more involved than what I've experienced in WoW (like the interruption example).


I didn't even want this to be a "this game vs that" discussion. I'm trying to comment on the absolutely baffling assertion that MMOs are all about "kill X monsters" quests and boring, repetitive, spamming combat, and the claims that not only has no MMO done otherwise (wrong) but that it's all a MMO can aspire to accomplish (also wrong).
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:38PM Zethe said

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@Ehra

Played guild wars, it has kill quests, it has a lot of kill quests. It uses the same combat system most MMO's use 1-8.

"Then there's Dark Age of Camelot where I can level and gear myself almost entirely through PvP"

It has been confirmed that you can level entirely through PVP in SWTOR.


"PvP, where, again, positioning and smart use of your abilities, cooldowns, and charges is what wins you fights, not standing in one spot spamming the same 4 buttons while the guy you're fighting does the same"

And you have proof that people in this game are required to stand still in pvp pressing three buttons?
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:11PM Ehra said

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@Zethe

"Played guild wars, it has kill quests, it has a lot of kill quests. It uses the same combat system most MMO's use 1-8."

It has kill quests, but the primary focus of the PvE content (and where the story is delivered) is through the missions, of which none are just "go kill 10 X." All of those side quests (because that's what they are, side quests) could be removed from the game tomorrow and the bulk of the PvE content would still be there. They don't serve a vital function in leveling the player or providing "story."

And way to ignore my point about hotbars. Of course you push numbers to use your skills, that's not the point I was making and if you don't see the difference between WoW's and GW's combat system then there's absolutely no point in having this discussion.

"It has been confirmed that you can level entirely through PVP in SWTOR."

That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with the discussion about generic filler quests and how it's supposedly to integral to a MMO's existence?
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:47AM Mynsc said

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Nothing new really... anyone that followed the game knows by now that it's going to fall in the same category as WoW and RIFT. Good news for players that love these themeparks.

The sandbox lovers still have to wait for future titles. And wait we shall.

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:49AM deejrandom said

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Kind of funny - I haven't found any MMO that has perfect combat in it. Most seem to be a carbon copy of a carbon copy of ....well you get the picture. Good thing what I'm really wanting to play TOR for is the story - I figured the MMO combat would be just like many MMOs on the market right now.

I want a good story based mmo. I have never played one - it'll be unique. By story I mean "One with a Narrative structure that is more than walls of text."

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:52AM Jikarta said

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Haters gon hate

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 12:02PM Utakata said

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@Jikarta

Trolls gon troll...

...do you have anything insightful to add?
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 11:07PM Jikarta said

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@Utakata

My comment had more depth than you could possibly imagine
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Posted: Jun 14th 2011 10:52AM (Unverified) said

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"If BioWare had sacrificed the story-driven aspect of their game, there wouldn't be much reason to play The Old Republic. Other MMOs have better combat models and more impressive worlds," the magazine says.


That's the consensus that I've gotten from most (except hardcore fans).

The game is good for it's story, but not much else. Where as Rift lacks a bit in it's story, it more than makes up for fun gameplay and an interesting world.

So, I must ask "why leave Rift for TOR?". And there seems to be no answer good enough.

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