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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 12:08PM (Unverified) said

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Players should never control other players. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This has destroyed other games, some that aren't even designed to do it. I believe I heard some talk of Aion having a major issue of this, I might be wrong. There was something about a guild pretty much controlling the server, on both factions. Blacklisting players and guilds, camping them, stating who can raid. I dunno I might be thinking of a different game, it was some pretty bad stuff though. It cater to small group of power manics, that just sounds like bad design.

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 2:36PM Ordegar said

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My first thought from reading your story is that the lockout is not fair to mercenaries. Locking out guild recruitment locks them out from participating then, doesn't it?

I think that rather than having a lock-out, the mercenary recruitment should be touted as a feature of siege war, and that the best guilds will be active in that endeavor. In fact, the devs should implement a special mercenary registration and recruitment system with a spiffy UI. Now that would be cool.

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 3:30PM Bladerunner83 said

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Rules piss people off and a lockout is a dumb idea. I was curious about one statement though; "It prevents players from forming or getting into guilds, which are standard features expected of MMOs these days." What other MMOs do this? I've played multiple sub. based games and have never seen this lockout feature, is this only in F2P games?

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 3:52PM Ghostspeaker said

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@Bladerunner83

I've played loads of F2P games and I can say pretty unequivocally that most other games don't do this. It seems weird and dumb to me too.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:09PM jeremys said

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@Bladerunner83 I didn't mean to imply that with the sentence.

I meant the guilds are the "standard feature". The feature of being able to have what's called a guild and all the basics guild-features bring to the game that is so common among MMOs.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:20PM jeremys said

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@Ghostspeaker Yeah. Sorry about this. I meant they are locking out guild functions and it's the guid-feature that is the standard, common feature among most MMOs.

Runes of Magic is the only one that I, as well, know of that has this time-based lock-out, but Siege War is pretty unique and insanely popular.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 3:51PM Ghostspeaker said

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I don't play RoM, so I'm coming at this as a total outsider and any players please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But I don't get why the devs are trying to quash an interesting emergent behavior that doesn't actually hurt the game as far as I can tell. The only reason I can think of for people to bitch about it is they're butthurt about losing siege wars and mercs are a convenient scapegoat. "We didn't lose because they're better than us, we lost because they got mercs!"

Add in that this probably affects people who don't even do SWs more than mercs (as you say, it's too easy for mercs to work around) and I say it definitely needs to go.

I'd also like to add that I'd never heard about siege warfare in RoM before. It sounds intriguing. I caught a glimpse of a Massively livestream of RoM last week that showed an interesting tower defense PvP game. Is that what this is?

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:12PM jeremys said

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@Ghostspeaker Oh. No Ghostspeaker. Siege War is a massive guild vs. guild battle taking place between two large guild castles and involving strategic gameplay.

Imagine World of Warcraft battlegrounds on steroids and you'd be getting warmer.

Build buildings, protect crystals, take crystals to immediately buy siege weapons, storm the castles.

I will be talking about it(and showing it) in the near future.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:26PM Rustyx said

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It does hurt the game. The guilds are matched on their power. As you win, your score increases and as you lose, it decreases. While there are mismatches, overall there is an attempt to make it a balanced fight.

Mercing unbalances it. Mercs are traditionally very much OP, so when you win, there is no sense of accomplishment on your win. You didnt earn it, the merc won. If you lose, there is great deal of frustration.

Think of it as randomly placing a high level mob in the middle of content that is set for certain level. You are ready to deal with the challenge and you have a pretty good idea what the challenge is. Except that once in a while, you get way more than you can deal with, at random. No fun.

There are other problems with mercs. Traditional SW in ROM is based on team play. A good team has tactics that work for offense and for defense. You have to set up proper strategy and execute it, so you build your activities to properly coordinate everyone's abilities. Mercs dont do any of it. They play on your team, but not as a part of it.

Mercing needs to be restricted further, not encouraged. Most people in game view it as a form of cheating, of bringing in the ringers from major league to a friendly neighborhood game, thus guaranteeing that you get the win, but ruining the game.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:30PM Ghostspeaker said

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@jeremys

That does sound pretty unique. Sweet! I look forward to your article (and video!) about it. :)
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 6:03PM Ghostspeaker said

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@Rustyx

I didn't know it was matched that way. Yeah, I can easily see how that would make it a serious problem. I stand corrected.

The current system still sounds weird and ineffective at deterring the behavior, though. Keeping people from joining SWs for a certain period (maybe a few days or a week) after joining a guild seems a more obvious and elegant solution. I wonder if there's some tech issue involved.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 4:24PM Haldurson said

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One thing that I think Fallen Earth did was they had a limit, not on the guild, but on the player -- if you quit a guild, you had to wait a certain number of days before you could join another guild. Another possibility would be to force a probationary period on new guild members.

Posted: Jun 13th 2011 5:42PM Rustyx said

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@Haldurson

There is a cooldown period on joining the guild. But it is only one hour, not a number of days. It works fairly well, but it doesn't stop problems with SW. That is conducted once a day, so plenty of time for mercs to drop their own guild and join one just for SW.

The cooldown should be on SW participation, not on guild joining - pretty much what you are suggesting in terms of "probationary period". As long as it is longer than a day, that shuts mercs out because they are not sure who will get into siege next day (there are a lot more guilds who try to get in than available slots).
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Posted: Jul 24th 2011 9:18PM TE5LA said

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@Rustyx

I've always felt that it was too easy to switch guilds in all MMOs. This leads to problems like this and at the very least, having people use guilds for a quick benefit for themselves and hop to another. I've been a guild leader many times and it bugs me. I think there should be at least a week cooling off period before anyone should be able to rejoin a guild. Being solo a week isn't going to kill anyone but it could solve a lot of problems.
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Posted: Jun 13th 2011 6:59PM Graill440 said

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like any similar mechanic this is dev work at its finest, or most ignorant. First i need to address a quote,

"Forming communities and playing with others is one of the biggest reasons to play an MMO."

No, its not. That may be your reason for playing an MMO but it certainly is not mine or my friends reasons, its to have fun and show off bling or accomplishments, preferably those done on your own without the need to have your hand held or your nose wiped by 20 other people because devs build the game that way. Lately the choices for any decent MMO are nill.

Now back to topic, lockouts are a machanic that silence a voiceful few in this game, when devs go to this level of meddling to "fix" a mechanic they put in place in the outset it is very bad for business and forces those on the fence or the majority of that playerbase to leave, note, those not in guilds.

There is a far better solution to the problem of waiting to attack another guild waiting for their "downtime" but as always the developers are incredibly clueless and non imaginative. Fix it the simplest way possible while alienating the largest portion of their subscriber base, non guild players, not a smart thing to do, but they will spin it otherwise, stating subscribers are on vacation or something when they lose them.

Surely its not the developer choices, lack of developer insight, lack of skill and lack of imagination that causes these problems and escalates them in the first place. or maybe the 1% of the population that actually posts on their forums gives the devs the green light to make *cough* "informed choices".

For the folks still playing this title, you need to sound off more, either quit paying them or bloody their nose in court. I have seen some great ideas posted on their forums, far better than what these developers have come up with, why wont the players do something with more substance and with a bit more of a toothsome crunch? (Grin)

Its like gamers today are afraid to make the devs angry because they may stop making games. (Laugh)

I tell you, when some of these unkown folks with these ideas and goals get into the gaming industry and start displacing the current regime of developers things may start looking up, sadly by then i may be dead. (Snicker)

Posted: Jun 14th 2011 1:23AM tooright said

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No just NO it is a very very GOOD idea for frogster to do this.

The lockout prevents Merc's from telling the opposing guild "Hey I have been paid 10 million gold tonight to Merc for this guild , pay me more and I'll merc for you" with the lockout this is still possible but it prevents siege war from becoming , pay a merc and win war.

Players can still Merc and Guilds can still hire them, but this mechanic prevents a Merc from hopping to the opposite team as easily. The only people this hurts are the merc's and frankly Frogster doesn't care, merc's aren't ever going to quit.

This game probably more so than any other I have ever played has a huge disparity in levels of power. I know players that have the equivalent of thousands of dollars worth of real life money (direct cash shop value) sunk into their character.

Literally one or two of these characters can solo an entire guild and you should hear the rage from people that have only sunk in a couple hundred dollars into their character when they get one shot by someone who has blown five or six thousand of dollars.

Merc's are part of this game and always will be. Frogster just is doing the right thing to limit the influence of them.

Posted: Jun 15th 2011 7:22AM Tanek said

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@tooright

"Merc's are part of this game and always will be. Frogster just is doing the right thing to limit the influence of them."

I can certainly see that it is good to place limits on this behavior, but the question becomes, are they doing it the right way?

Some suggestions others posted (like having to wait a day after joining a guild to be able to participate in SW) seem like ways to accomplish the goal without having a large impact on other players who are just trying to start or get into a guild. I don't know if these suggestions are difficult to implement or even possible at all, but since the current system has the potential to frustrate/drive away new players, I do hope alternate ideas are being researched.
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Posted: Jun 20th 2011 10:18PM Kitario said

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This is absolutely ridiculous! That explains why I couldn't invite a member's alt tonight. Our guild is a small leisure guild, nowhere near big enough for siege wars.. You would think instead of crippling everyone, they would build a mechanic that prevents the behavior they dont want happening... Like putting in a check that verifies person has been in guild for 48 hours or something like that instead of a mechanic that effects people that don't even do siege wars... what a crock.... lol

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