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Reader Comments (115)

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:12AM Verdande said

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The reason I hate open, everywhere PvP is that it's both aimless and overly punishing.

Let me explain.

In general, games with open PvP also have traditional MMO gameplay, where you need to go to a location in order to either grab some McGuffin or slay a couple of local fauna who mill around aimlessly. This is how you gain strength. Some guy who's ahead of you has decided to camp this area, and is going to kill you over and over until you can't get anything done. That's not at all fun, or rewarding for anybody but the really strong guy.

I like PvP in general (I enjoyed WAR), but there's got to be a purpose and it's got to be fair. Fighting against people that aren't even close in level isn't really fun for anybody, and for some reason a lot of games ignore that.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:24AM Jenks said

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@Verdande

Your point made me realize something. When you say traditional mmo gameplay, I'm assuming you mean a theme park experience, like EQ and WoW. I think open PvP works far better in a sandbox game, like UO or EVE.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:49AM Ably said

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@Jenks UO and EVE are not MMORPGs but sandboxes. The term "MMORPG" has become massively tainted that it really shouldn't be used for eve and their likes anymore.

Which is funny, because the prime MMORPG WoW is neither Massive nor overly roleplaying.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 10:35AM Xilmar said

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@Ably

EVE and UO are mmorpgs. get your facts straight.

If we were to go for the first, untainted and atomic meaning of RPGs, then none of the games are that sort of RPGs. Not wow, eve, ultima, daoc, rift, war, aoc, etc., but the old pen and paper games

in fact, the "untainted" rpgs are closer to a sandbox gameplay than a themepark one. you don't play for gear, or rewards, or stats, xp and numbers, but you play to have an adventure with your friends, to explore, get involved in personal stories, put things straight, cause chaos or make a name for yourself...and to kill as many bad guys in as many awesome ways possible.

Lastly, two things: an MMORPG is a genre that defines computer games with a large group of players, each with it's own character, in one persistent, virtual world.
A sandbox, on the other hand, is a design concept that implies an open virtual world that players can freely roam and change/influence, without the boundaries of level design restrictions. There is usually no "right way" to play it, players having to rely in imagination and personal preference in order to advance.
And secondly, WOW is both massive and (not counting the pnp definitions) has extensive roleplaying.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 10:55AM Ably said

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@Xilmar i never said they weren't. maybe you should read what i actually wrote and then start ranting.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 11:05AM fallwind said

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@Xilmar MMO? yes. RPG? ehhhh. I've yet to see any actual "role" playing. Meta-gaming? tonnes.... Spreadsheeting? everywhere! "Roll" playing? ya...

but haven't seen any actual role play.

(though I do admit fully that the plural of anecdote is not "data")
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 12:35PM (Unverified) said

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@Ably Says the guy who has littered this thread repeatedly with his own idiotic rants.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 4:18PM Ably said

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@(Unverified) i didn't rant at all. you are free to quote me the exact lines where you think i ranted though.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:15AM fallwind said

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deal breaker. I like to team up as much as the next gal, but sometimes I also like to go off and do my own things at my own pace. If I need a pack that is the size of your pack+1 just to get where I'm going (forget doing what I want to do) then on the days I want to solo I'm basically left auction house trading or vendoring.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:17AM Jenks said

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Like anything else, the greater the lows are, the greater the highs.

Playing consensual PvP battlegrounds can be fun, but with nothing at stake, it an only be so exciting. Many newer MMO players (post WoW era) expect a game they can solo through without consequences. Those are the kind of people an open world pvp chews up with the first gank because they haven't experienced that kind of low before.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 4:13PM Ably said

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@Equilibrian i'm not splitting hairs. noone is forced to PvP in Eve Online. You can simply live in high sec, where there are severe consequences to PvP and not PvP at all.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:22AM Arkanaloth said

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Yes.

I game for fun, my time is valuable to me, I don't feel like wasting time (and therefore fun) because somebody is bored and I happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:33AM Dril said

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No.

Well, rather, I don't mind it if there are places where it's prohibited OR if it's totally skill-based.

I generally dislike MMO PvP because it relies very little on actual player skill (inb4 Darkfall; you still have to grind skills, get r60 equipment and get enchantments rather than just rely on your ability to play your character.) Now, if it's something like EVE's nullsec, where there's an actual purpose to kill-on-sight, then I have no problem with it. But just running around ganking lowbies fur teh lulz is shite.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:44AM (Unverified) said

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I hate PvP in my MMORPG's. If PvP is billed as a major selling point I won't waste my money, or time on a title. If a game has PvP in the form of duels, arenas, guild wars, or any other controlled environment, I am fine with it. The problem I would have would be if there were rewards from PvP, (other than fluff), that could only be gained through PvP. Other than that, the constant watering down of the PvE game, to balance PvP, is the main issue.

In short, keep PvP segregated, and only good for an epeen stroke, and keep the PvE experience the main focus, and un affected by PvP, and I will be happy.

And yes, I am Old, and very Grumpy.
"Hey you kids, get off my lawn..."

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:44AM cored said

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Mmmm...creamy, delicious, real PvP.

For me, nothing get's me going like back when UO was first launched, and you could do whatever you wanted. A whole lot of people chose the dark side, even more didn't. The evil ones were more organized, and the game mechanics introduced to combat this ("Dread Lord" lol) were at best, ineffective, and often even counterproductive.

I only actually attacked and killed 2 player the whole time I played. Once, when I was a newb, I tried to help someone who was losing a fight with a spider with the brand new spell I'd gotten, Chain Lightning. Oops. The punch line came when, just as I nuked him, a bunch of players came around the corner, yelled "PKer!!" and proceeded to give me a beatdown before I could explain. Good times.

The other was some dude, obviously a thief, who kept standing next to me as I was trying to fight ettins. After telling him not to do that repeatedly, I wasted him. Felt good. Then the server rolled back. Argh.

Most often, I'd be out soloing, and suddenly the screen would start to lag a little, raising the hackles, and then that 1st red name would pop onscreen, almost always closely followed by several more, as I queued up my recall rune...

Sometimes I made it, sometimes not so much. Either way, it was awesome.

FFA PvP is, no doubt, a niche market, so unfortunately for me, we won't see another game with this feature until MMORPGs are much cheaper to make and the market get's split up with smaller, targeted offerings rather than the current slew of wannabe-WoW-killers.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:45AM xero8p said

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Yes because in case no one noticed the amount of assholes on the internet has exploded since the days of UO. Open world PvP has changed to open world griefing.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 11:11AM wfseg said

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@xero8p
This. Only ffa I play is Eve because it still has empire space.
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Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:50AM Enikuo said

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I don't really know. I haven't see a game that really tested my resolve. PvP seems to be the main selling point of FFA PvP games and they don't tend to offer housing, costuming, crafting I would care about, etc. FFA PvP is certainly not a feature I seek out, but I think I could live with it in a game that had the right feature set.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:52AM Greyhame said

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Generally yes, but it depends on how it's handled. Games where people can kill you no matter what with no consequences to themselves at all are stupid, and generally cause more problems than they are worth. Others are where the penalty of being killed can set you back to the point where you need to completely redo something (or essentially start over).

If the game doesn't have the option of being able to move into areas without PvP, then I'll skip it. Even if the PvP areas should give you faster gains, they should not be the only place to get gains.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2011 9:54AM (Unverified) said

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Direct and to the point...I approve. +1

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