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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: May 29th 2011 8:23PM (Unverified) said

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I'm in love with the Eve universe and backstory, and I've subbed to the game on three occasions (for maybe 8-9months total). I've tried faction warfare (after it had "died", sadly), tried to get into a couple of corps that were actively doing things in 0.0 but got turned down, and been a part of a couple of different "Casual" corps, which were semi-inactive and rarely did group activities.

I think Eve has such great potential, but is really missing some dedicated content for casual gamers. And I think it's on purpose - there seemed, to me, to be a very real feeling of hostility towards me as a casual gamer from other players involved in more engaging content than mission running, of "hardcore gamer elitism" from these people. And I think this sense might be shared by some of the dev team, but who knows.

I wonder if Incursions are something I'd enjoy? But mostly I wish there would be dedicated, casual-friendly content that provided all the thrill I got from my brief pvp encounters, without the hours of organizing and set up, and with some form of cost-mitigation that makes it accessible from week 1 or 2 of gameplay.

Posted: May 29th 2011 10:42PM (Unverified) said

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Ya got a large dose of that myself, it's a great community, but a lot of the hardcore people are very anti-change. It's a game that could be so good, and people want to play it, but there so many road blocks. The training system is very flawed, worked done should reward skill points for that type of work. There a huge lack of structure, in favor of this mythlogicial sandbox glory. The game could go from a few hundred thousand players to a few million players, and the game could keep it's depth, and be so much more.

Posted: May 29th 2011 11:03PM DarkWalker said

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In a nutshell:

- When I played EVE, I really liked the game, except for two things: the penalty for losing/dying, and the apparent scarcity of solo/casual content. Without a change to both, I will not try EVE again. Since the death penalty is part of the core aspects of the game, I doubt it will change, so I don't think I will ever play EVE again.

- WoW went back on how friendly it is to casual grouping in the Cataclysm expansion. Running random dungeons through the LFD tool had become a mixed bag, with a too high chance of the group disbanding before completing the run; and both the increased difficulty, and the unification of 10-man and 25-man raid lockouts, meant public raids took a nosedive. I, myself, left WoW mostly due to this.

Posted: May 30th 2011 1:48AM Juicer said

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I truly feel there is some animosity towards the casual EVE player. Where hardcores view themselves on some higher echelon and couldnt be bothered to recruit 'casual' non hardcores.
Many of us have jobs/lifes outside of gaming and cant be bothered to commit 40 hours a week for something that is suppost to be entertaining. The repedative and minotonous nature of 3/4 of the game isnt enough to keep the casual gamer going when most of us would rather login for an hour or two and get right to what we enjoy.
Fun game but definately not for the masses and I think they are content with the numbers they have. Truly a 'proud to be' niche gaming company.

Posted: May 30th 2011 4:07AM Nucleon said

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I hate the terms hardcore and casual. Personally, I believe I represent many, many, many adult gamers when I say that I'm hardcore in approach and difficulty, but casual in terms of time.

Why isn't there a game out there which is difficult, thought-provoking and challening, but consumable 1 hour at a time. You have WoW on one end where everything can be done in an hour, but is waaay to easy, or EvE/Darkfall on the other where it's challenging, if you have 3 hours to spend getting a group together for some real PvP, otherwise you're doing mind-numbing missions for your hour.

No thanks.

Posted: May 30th 2011 4:58AM Xilmar said

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good read, though i do not have the exact same point of view on some of th details.

not gonna comment anything on them, coz getting idiotic replies from people not even playing it is getting old.

but good job, a great article, as usual

Posted: May 30th 2011 5:46AM Xilmar said

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This article is now about clear skies 3

Posted: May 30th 2011 8:59AM (Unverified) said

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To broaden Eves appeal to MMORPG gamers it needs quite a few things.

First it needs to relax its death penalties in certain areas. So for example the death penalty is not as steep in secure sectors as it is in null sector space.

Then it needs a lot better group finder tools.

And lastly it needs instanced PvP battlegrounds where again the death penalty is not as steep as it is currently.

If these three were done then it would take away nothing from the existing game, exept less opportunities to grief people, but add a wider appeal to people.

Problem is that the current player base want these extreme death penalties and lack of instanced PvP because it makes them feel more "hardcore" so these changes could never be done without alienating the current player base. Hence it will never happen and hence why Eve will never appeal to a wider audience.

Posted: May 30th 2011 9:45AM Xilmar said

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@(Unverified)

Have to disagree with you there. It would change the game very much.

You know, people say that eve players are arrogant and consider themselves hardcore, but you're actually the one who is arrogant. And to be honest, your ideas of turning a sandbox mmo into a themepark one is a bit silly.

Eve Online was created to be a place where 100% safety is not guaranteed and everything, good or bad, takes place in the open world. Tweaks and modifications of current specific mechanics are needed, like in any MMO ever released...but if you'd play the game, you'd know that what you suggest makes no sense
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Posted: May 30th 2011 12:52PM Raikulxox said

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@(Unverified) IMO, that would make the game worse. EVE's one of the games I enjoy because crafters are needed. Most people live in high sec space, and if they don't lose everything on death, where does that leave the crafters at? Bad idea.
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Posted: May 30th 2011 12:54PM (Unverified) said

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Complaining about the death penalty is both silly and valid, I think. What needs to happen is the death penalty needs to be less punishing to new players. Older players, with built up isk and assets, will a) rarely be flying something they can't afford to lose and b) usually have one or more spare, already fitted ships waiting. As a newbie, "death" can mean 30minutes or more of flying around collecting a new ship and all the modules you want for it - and that's assuming you have the isk for it. What I think needs to happen is a graduated penalty, where players with under 1 month of play time and less thab X amount of isk are compensated with an exact copy of any cruiser or below that they lose, complete with all non-t2 modules.

Also, the instanced battleground with no penalty for dying (maybe an entrance fee?) would be a fantastic addition, in my opinion, that will never happen due to the mentality of the devs and existing player base. The Alliance Tournament is a pretty big hit with fans, and yet most people never get to compete. What if there was a permanent "Corp Tournament" with smaller brackets (3-5 a side, different hull class brackets too) and a cash prize for winning in isk that would compensate a newly fitted ship (t1 modules maybe), so that every win would pay for every loss. Add a ranking system, and you've got some fun for casual players. Oh well.
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Posted: May 30th 2011 11:06AM (Unverified) said

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Ok so you are telling me I am arrogant and in the same statement you prove why changes in Eve will not be done. Because every change done, such as group finding tools and instanced PvP will be accused of making the game "themepark" where as in fact it has absolutely nothing to do with themepark or sandbox.

Furthermore the changes I proposed is not to "make sense" to the current playerbase but rather to wide the appeal so more casual players can enjoy the game too. But as you proved it will never be done because of the existing playerbase will scream and use namecalling and what not.
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Posted: May 30th 2011 11:32AM Xilmar said

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@(Unverified)

No one's screaming, and i hope you're right when you say that things will not change in such a drastic way. Got some free time, so let's go over the things you mentioned.

Firstly, the grouping mechanism exists in game. And while i hear they're workable, improvement is needed (like i said above). For me personally, the fleet finder always has been the chat window or vent/TS. Playing a multiplayer game by yourself sounds silly to me. But I'm sure you're right about the fleet finder.

Now, the other two you brought up have the same desired outcome: "the death penalty is not as steep". Coz the death penalty is losing your ship and modules. That's it. What do you want, only to lose the modules? Well, then say goodbye to any sort of fighting without a 500+ million ship. Anyone without a navy or t3 ship would be massacred every single time. Or only to lose your ship, in which case most would have to pay billions and billions of isk for the best modules in order to guarantee at least a good chance.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I'm a carebear, always have been, and i'd love for eve to have 2 million subs. But not if it meant changing the game in a drastic way...and like i tried to explain, your proposals (poorly defined, might be the issue tbh) at the moment seem very bad, from a softcore-as-a-fluffy-bunny player. And you cannot have the same game if you change the game.
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Posted: May 30th 2011 1:26PM Khai mann said

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What you must understand is that EVE is niche game, a very successful one at that. They have more subscribers than most modern MMO so why ruin that?

From my perspective (played EVE for over 2 years), the game needs to fix existing problems rather than going around creating new and futile content that most players don't care about.

To make the game more appealing to noobs, they have done away with learning skills which in my opinion was a great help.

Please people, don't try make EVE another generic theme park MMO. If you don't like it, don't play it.
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Posted: May 30th 2011 10:00AM mikejr said

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There's a paradigm shift in think when you move from a gear-based game to a character-based game. In WoW for instance, you are your gear - it is an enormous part of your viability and ability to access content.

In EVE, you are you - as such losing assets is not as big a deal as being able to use those assets. You'll lose ships sure, but on the other hand once you've bought something it's not a sunk cost. For instance, all the old 'gear/ships' you've accumulated can be repackaged and resold for what you paid for it in most cases. So while you can lose gear, it's not a money sink.

I've been playing EVE since late 2004 on a somewhat casual basis - it's not that I would be resilient to change at all, however nothing would ruin the game faster than a mass influx and corruption of the community a la WoW. CCP's making money off of it, development continues - doubling or tripling the amount of current players wouldn't necessarily be a good thing from my perspective.

Posted: May 30th 2011 4:17PM (Unverified) said

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You see the same theme in these forums, Eve players don't want change. The game is perfect in their eyes, and even if the change was a improvement, they would be against it. Eve is a decent game, but it's not successful, it could be SOOO much more. As I previously stated, instead of a few hundred thousand people, it could be several million. In the same breath though, Eve players often state they hate the idea of more new people playing. I think in the long run, developers may have to make the hard decision to make changes, even if existing players go kicking and screaming all the way.

Posted: May 30th 2011 9:21PM mikejr said

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@(Unverified)

EVE is far from perfect... very far. I would disagree that it's not successful though, the track record of EVE has been favorable since launch. It's not that new players are a bad thing, if it's the right kind of new players. Chasing after the 12-21 year old strobe-lit button masher demographic isn't going to improve things (I'm not suggesting they're after that demographic). Several million players adds an awful lot of overhead - and it's not like the systems are currently empty.
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Posted: May 31st 2011 9:34AM Zethe said

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"Eve is a decent game, but it's not successful"

Just, wrong. Completely and utterly. Eve has to be in the top 10(subscription) games in the world. It is also the only game apart from WoW that's numbers aren't declining but are infact steadily increasing over the years.

As for the people who say the "death penalty" should be changed, they clearly have no idea about how the game works. This would destroy the market utterly and one of the main aspects of the game. It would also effect stuff like logistics, hauling, wormholes, 0.0 warfare, pirating, lowsec pvp, ect. It would change the game entirely.

All newbies can insure there ships, and the cost of fitting t1 frigs/cruisers is little to nothing. Once you get into a BC the money starts coming in and you should really stop getting yourself blown up.

Eve is a hard game, and i am a very new person in EVE(Just trying to get into level 4 missions, not finding it easy.. 11 days for t2 turrets!) but the main thing i like about EVE is that fact that it's a brutal and if i do something stupid i will loose my stuff. It's also complicated and i enjoy a challange(And i have lost all my stuff before flying a ship i couldn't afford to loose).

Skilltraining i don't like much, though i couldn't personally think of a system that would fit eve better.
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Posted: May 31st 2011 9:04AM b3n said

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I've subscribes to EVE for years but I haven't been playing for last few months.

It takes too much time and effort to be fun.

Incursion was another feeble expansion. Incursions have no lasting consequence on the world of Eve - they should be like Rift.

Posted: May 31st 2011 4:58PM Calfis said

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@b3n

How much time and effort are we talking? Its perfectly viable to play a couple of hours a night and still be having fun. You can PvP in a cheap ship in lowsec for the lulz with some friends, bait and gang up on a guy with one good ship. Much more satisfying than blowing up instanced NPCs imo.

@Unverified

Why do some people think having greater numbers = better? If you have too many mouths to feed and not enough food to do the feeding sometimes that can make things worst for everyone on the whole. Honestly if I wanted to play a game that catered to the lowest common denominator then I would have subscribed to WoW and not EvE. Just because you have one game that does that does not necessarily follow that all games should mimic it.
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