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Reader Comments (52)

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:09PM Faction 3 said

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WHERE THE MESMER AT?!!?

C'MON!!!

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:30PM j1083 said

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@Faction 3

My sentiments, exactly.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 11:41PM Daeths said

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@Faction 3 Please! NO! A class designed to annoy is in my opinion a d=bad game play choice. I had fun fighting against any other class. Yes, the elemental resistance of a ranger could be challenging to an ele, or his interrupts vexing and Yes, the curses of a necro could put one in a bind, but the mesmer was a class was a class only of dots and curses and interrupts. Never have i come across any class in any game that i hate to fight against then the mesmer. Now I understand that many people love this class, but any class that keeps me from playing my own character is no good in my book, so please no mesmer!
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Posted: May 24th 2011 10:16AM alinos said

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@Daeths

Bah The Mesmer and the interrupts were what made GW in my mind.

Instead of being purely 8 people smash 8 other people until one side dies.

You gained a competitive edge by being reactive to your opponent.

By seeing that someone was using a res spell and knocking it back at them.

It was and still is the thing that dragged me into GW PvP and so far i'm yet to find another game i've had as much fun in playing it's PvP element
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:19PM MrFinesse326 said

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I 100% agree with you, Rubi. Some people in the community are jumping the gun (sorry I couldn't resist) on judging this class with very limited knowledge thus far. The weapon style inconsistencies are concerning, but with 8+ months to iron out the details I have no doubt that ANet will make this class as seemless as it needs to be.

The other interesting discussion that i've seen in the past couple days has been catering the weapon/kit/turret styles to a particular class which I think could potentially be interesting. That would lessen the people crying fowl over the Sylvari/Asurans being engineers.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 6:05PM JoolaPrime said

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@MrFinesse326

I think AN are looking for people's first impressions to the offering they've given us with the Engineer. Judging the class outright my be a little premature but I'm sure the Dev's are very interested in the knee jerk reaction.

My first impression isn't one of disappointment, I'm just not interested in what I see. It just doesn't seem to fight well into the world we know. If people can deploy little turrets on the battlefield why haven't we seen turret towers defending settlements etc..

Sure we don't know much about the class yet and all scepticism is speculation but then again, so is anything said in defence of what we currently know.

I said this in another post, there are 7 other classes to play if this one doesn't suit a persons play style.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:21PM DevilSei said

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Actually, you see explosive kegs far earlier than Eyes of the North. Prophecies has you dealing with them a fair number of times as well.

As for the Engineer class? Love it. It's equal parts silly and serious. Some elements seem inspired by Team Fortress Two (and a few of its classes). Others have already been seen (in the books, flamethrowers were used) and have some rather real-world basis. Hell, the ability to pick up and place turrets is in a few FPS games as well (not sure about TF2, I only see things, never got around to play it).

As for Asuran Engineers? Well, think about it this way. The Engineer class has something for every race. Remember the Elixir gun? The items that could have random effects? That SCREAMS! Asuran-made items, what other race would deliver on an elixir that gave you random elite skills when used? Charr and humans as well would probably stick to their own elites, Norn may love it but more than likely lack the technical know-how, which leaves the Sylvari and Asuran.
Sylvari could easily possess the knowledge to make such items, but it would be second-hand because of how the race is.
Which leaves Asurans as the best possibility of its origins.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:35PM Borick said

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@DevilSei "the ability to pick up and place turrets is in a few FPS games as well"

The difference I see is that turrets in a game like Call of Duty are not tied to a particular class. A turret is just one of the various 'wildcards' you can add situationally as any player. In class-based MMO play the turret is a figured-in percentage of that classes damage output.

When one class has 100% skill-based DPS, requiring that a player aim at and hit a target, and another class has 20% of his DPS on autopilot, it changes the combat dynamic in PVP.
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Posted: May 24th 2011 12:23AM Eamil said

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@Borick What's this about "aim at and hit a target?" I think you're overestimating how "twitchy" GW2's combat is supposed to be.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:28PM Borick said

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Aimbotting turrets in an action/aiming PVP-balanced MMO. No one else sees balance issues?

Melee pets are one thing -- they may be fire-and-forget, but you have skilled options for countering them through kiting or control, and you can hit them back. Auto-aiming turrets that can be placed taking advantage of terrain and visual cover and stacked with other turrets forces balance decisions that can marginalize whole classes.

I go back once more to Global Agenda. The robotics agent in that game has stationary turrets and buff stations. In PVP these turrets crippled the class. Either the turrets were powerful enough that they were a hard counter to skilled players, or they were weak enough that robos were treated like free kills -- and this was in unrated PVP. In rated match play the 'turret' class became a token bring-along that was only necessary for humping the respawn beacon for the other teammates.

ArenaNet is inarguably more experienced and capable of dealing with thse issues than a small-time indie studio. They have experience with PVP, so I wonder just how they will deal with such issues.

I'm not trying to bash the game with criticism. I can't wait to play it, myself, so call me critically-invested.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:36PM MrFinesse326 said

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@Borick
Aimbotting spirits in an action/aiming PVP-balanced MMO. No one else sees balance issues?
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:48PM Borick said

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@MrFinesse326 True. It doesn't matter to me if it's a mechanical turret, a magical turret, or a summoned elemental that spits fireballs. Ranged aimbots are ranged aimbots.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 4:47PM Dirame said

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@Borick

They can face but they can't neccessarily hit you. Just like the Ritualist's spirits, I believe these turrets can miss and like the COD turret's they can be taken out.

Considering all classes have the ability to go ranged, I'd say it will only be a matter of skill in taking out an engi who mainly uses turrets.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 6:49PM Ordegar said

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@Borick

Global Agenda is a pvp 3ps mmo that has a turret class; there is no problem with balance because of the turrets. The Global Agenda Robotics class not only has turrets, but flying bots and powerful missile-launcher turrets; but the Recon class can stealth in and throw in grenades and mines, or melee the Robotics guy, or snipe him from range then blow up his turret nest.

No class is invulnerable or all-powerful; just because they have some nice tools doesn't mean there automatically will be balance problems. As for the turrets auto-aiming, aoe attacks don't need to be aimed, so we shouldn't have an Elementalist?
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 7:32PM GryphonStalker said

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@Borick

Turrets are something I'd like Anet to expound on a little. After playing Global Agenda from it's start, I'm leery. I really don't care to see PVP turn into turret whack-a-mole (as it is in Merc).

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Posted: May 24th 2011 4:22AM Dirame said

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@Ordegar

Ground targeting for AoE attacks, so they are targeted in that sense.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:30PM gildhur said

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I reject the premise of the weapon design "inconsistency". Why should all of a particular profession's weapon types be uniformly designed? Does a level 1 Warrior's weapons look anything at all like a level 80 Warrior's weapons? Does the starting "wooden buckler" of a level 1 Guardian (or any tank class in any other game) look even from the same planet as the level 80 flaming spirit wall? Add in the complexity of 250 years of ad hoc technological evolution, and I don't see why the various weapon types that Engineers use SHOULD share similar design elements.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:32PM PrimeSynergy said

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Hmmm a little bit of deja vu.

Lil Ms. Rubi was on Gamebreaker.TV's TWIMMO this week spreading her Guild Wars knowledge lol. Tell Gary that I demand he put you on more often!!!!

In any case, I don't have anything to add to this. I'm not one to pay much attention to detail/lore in my MMOs so this doesn't really bother me too much. But lore inconsistencies have bothered me in other types of games so I totally get where people are coming from.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:34PM chuckasucka said

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I knew it felt really off, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what until you wrote about the different races and their fit or misfit with the engineer class. I''m sure that there will be way more people rolling human and charr engineers and the sylvari engineer will be ultra rare, but still, it seems really, really off.

That said, it's a game and the class looks like it'll be a load of fun in pve and pvp. I like utility skills a lot, and so this might strike a certain heart's cord. I just hope it doesn't mar the setting/world, which seems really enchanting and magical, with some sort of steam punk misfit.

:P

Nice write up, Rubi

Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:44PM j1083 said

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@chuckasucka

Is a sylvari engineer more jarring than a charr mesmer? A sylvari necromancer? An asuran warrior? I don't understand why so many RPG players seem so keen to leap on what "doesn't fit" in a genre literally described as fantasy and characterized by the improbable and impossible.

It's just as easy to tailor the character backstory that creates an implausible combination as it is to fall back on the bizarre conceit that a singular, stereotypical hat embodies the totality of a race's existence.

In general GW2 seems to want err on the side of being more permissive and I have to say that, as a player, I'm much more enthused about being able to make any profession with any race than being hardbound by rules for "flavor."

The thing about flavors is that everyone has their own preference, one may as well celebrate that fact.
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