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Reader Comments (17)

Posted: May 22nd 2011 7:50PM Graill440 said

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I talked about fleets jumping a few years ago to CCP, i "told" them i would sell my ideas to them, they declined. like anything i am sure most of us protect our intellectual ideas from gaming companies and other individuals....you do dont you?

(Laugh) Anyway, the idea was for one person to make a difference, and make fleet jumps risky, forcing tight control of the areas around the event horizon of both incoming and outgoing jumps by the corps.

The carebear combat that goes on in EVE right now is laughable, entire fleets enjoying the lag protection and secrecy of where they will come out. Think back to the great shows, one in particular, where one or two folks collapse a jumpgate or wormhole, destroying an entire fleet, too bad these ideas cannot be used without liscense, to bad indeed.

This might even calm down the lord of the flies gameplay EVE is infamous for, knowing an ordinary joe, pissed off because some corp TAP just killed them for shits and giggles will collapse a fleet jump for revenge, all things being equal.......of course. You look up your old emails CCP, call me, we will talk. (Big laugh)

Posted: May 22nd 2011 11:36PM Kunari said

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@Graill440 those are pretty obvious ideas. You remind me of a South Park episode (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1cGiEw5yLo) except replace "Simpsom's" with "DS9" and I have doubt that DS9 was the first as "Babylon 5" did it too.
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Posted: May 22nd 2011 7:52PM Xilmar said

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I honestly don't see this being such a huge issue with the power blocks. sure, it sucks for them, but they'll manage just fine.

as a fan of small gang pvp, this is good news for me. having fleets jump in a mining op to kill miners is kinda silly, and it'll be nice to see less of it.

Tho i'm really hoping this will not affect the russians too badly. really hoping the ongoing war will have a different end than before...don't have anything with one side or the other, but it's about time someone did something interesting in the northern part of the map...less we're one big happy family, more pew pew

back on topic...i'm nowhere close to an old vet, but from what i've been seeing the past few years, a lot of problems in 0.0 have been because of supercaps. maybe it's just my preference for smaller-subcap fleets in pvp, but i'd be ok if supercaps were 10 times as expensive to build (semi-random amount), or even take them out of the game entirely.

the power blocks should have an advantage over smaller alliances, just because they're usually better, and that's a fact. but if normal fleet pvp would be tweaked to make it more fun, maybe there will not be that many people blobbing up, thus making pvp more fun and getting more players down to null to have a whack at it.

- really, it's almost a 100 mill loss for every logi ship... and flying logi/EW ships quite often, being called primary early in the fight is expected. and it's cool, but getting blobbed frequently and losing close to 100 mill each time takes some of the fun out of it...especially when there's no alliance that can flip the bill for me. -

tl;dr: HTFU

Posted: May 23rd 2011 11:26AM Kalex716 said

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@Xilmar

I actually think logi ships ruin small scale pvp straight up.

Sure if they were not around, you wouldn't see ships field any risky expensive pirate battleships and stuff, but you would see a lot more stuff blowing up on both sides (winner and loser).
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 1:25PM Xilmar said

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@Kalex716

then you'd see a lot more ecm. which imo is worse for the entertainment of a fight than logis. and if not, then sensor damps would be the defensive support. wait, what am i saying, every dps in the fleet will have a shield/armor repper on, and then all pvp would be one blob against another across the board.

defences in general have been and always will be very important in pvp, more so as the isk value increases. relying one 2 logistic ships is preferable to having everyone rep in my opinion, or not being able to target/shoot anyone. for my fleet and the opposing side
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Posted: May 22nd 2011 10:08PM Paradigm68 said

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"Some players who rely on jump bridges are furious with the changes"

Exactly. The fact the people can be upset at the idea of no longer being able to travel safely in 0.0 proves there was a problem. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 4:53AM Ashen Spiral said

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The common trend that people are seeing is that CCP has no idea how their own game works. It's clear they made a mistake with dominion, but recent changes such as the anomaly nerf and the upcoming jump bridge nerf will only make the problem worse. Both changes affect the "average Joe" 0.0 player, making it far less appealing for new players to try and live in 0.0 space. Large coalitions will grow and smaller entities will still have no chance to survive.

It's true that Jump bridges and a good intel channel allow for people to move around select 0.0 systems in relative safety. However, it is still quite possible for jump bridges to be camped by enemies, and certain jumps require actual stargates due to distance issues. Now CCP will be effectively doubling the number of jumps needed to get around, making nullsec even more boring, more expensive, and only more dangerous to players that are new to 0.0. Everyone else will simply use an alt to scout, which again reinforces the idea that having a second account is a requirement to play the game. The only people who will be left in 0.0 after a few months are bitter veterans with multiple accounts and enough SP to fly capital ships.

As far as force projection goes, jump bridges have nothing to do with it. Deployments away from home sov space always involve using jump clones, which are basically a form of instant teleportation. Even if jump bridges were totally removed, large fleets would simply use stargates to get to their destination, also in near total safety due to scouts and sheer amount of players.

Capital and supercapital ships, such as carriers, dreads, titans, and supercarriers, are technically the fastest ships in the game, being able to move across vast distances of space easily. These ships are what has really caused issues with force projection, yet CCP has revealed no real plans to address them. What's worse is they can use cyno fields to hot drop people with impunity. Removing cynos and giving capital ships another form of travel would solve most of the issues with force projection easily and effectively, yet CCP is unlikely to see the truth that is right in front of them. Of course it may also be because having a capital ship requires having another account with at least one cyno alt in order to move around safely and effectively. Changing cynos, capital, or supercapital ships could cause a noticeable subscriber drop.

I only hope CSM 6 will be able to steer CCP back in the right direction before 0.0 become an empty wasteland.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 11:40AM Berzerk said

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@Ashen Spiral You seem to have confused "I don't like these changes" with "new players won't like these changes."

The idea that if my high-sec corp goes on a roam through null-sec, that we could end up facing a fleet of supercarriers does not encourage me to visit. It should be as safe for the average me as it is for the average you. Of course numbers, skill, fits, and home territory make differences, but a small fight should be able to happen without the constant fear of a titan dropping on me.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 12:31PM Orakkus said

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@Berzerk It's not the Titans people are worried about. It's the Super Carriers. They are easy to train for, can field both fighters (good against Sub-cap battleships) and bombers (good against Capital ships), have a massive tank (which can absorb at least one Titan DD), are ECM resistant, and with just a couple SC friends added, can exponentially increase their battlefield survivability. Because of that, I think that is why you are seeing far less PVP. It's simply too easy for one or two people high-skilled people to completely change the course of a battle. It IS an "I Win" button.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 10:35PM kgptzac said

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@Ashen Spiral

0.0 is supposed to be more dangerous and harder to travel than highsec and lowsec space. I don't know where the idea came from... but 0.0 isn't meant for new players who just started climbing the game's "learning cliff".

Anyway it seems supercap is a more of a concern on terms of balance.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 1:35PM Calfis said

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How is there a lack of PvP when the most massive online war ever is going on right now between the Northern Coalition and the Drone Russian Federation?

If power projection was as easy as "oh I'm being attacked at home lets play back" then why aren't the Russians flying back to defend their southern approaches? The southern alliances under the leadership of Against ALL Authorities is literally eating up Russian territory from the south as the Russians swallow territory in the north.

Posted: May 23rd 2011 2:13PM Orakkus said

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@Calfis
Well, I can agree with what CCP said. Some people have tended to think that conflict = PVP. And while there certainly has been extended conflict, PVP losses have probably gone down because no one wants to "welp" a fleet, and with the current game mechanics as they are, success is only going to happen if you have more of "x" ships (either Supercaps, or just raw numbers) on the field. If you don't, because ships are expensive to the base 0.0 pilot (who buys his own ships with his own hard earned isk - stupid change in the anomolies by CCP), then it's better for morale and for the pilots not to engage at all.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 11:46PM (Unverified) said

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@Calfis
It's not a matter of being unable to defend their "home" space.
They're not visiting the North, they're moving in.
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Posted: May 24th 2011 10:43AM Calfis said

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@(Unverified)

I know they are moving in, but apparently with all their jump bridges and super caps they are unable to hold both the north and the south which goes to show that there is a limit to even the most powerful coalitions.
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Posted: May 23rd 2011 3:32PM Bedazzled said

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The recent change to jump bridges (and by extension titan bridging) is pretty bad. A lot of people in my corp are muttering things like "T20" and "this is just to kill the NC", I pretty much think this is the case... this isn't about combat or the lack of it. This is about killing off the Northen Coalition.

In the last few months we've had IT Alliance fall, NC is being hard pushed by Russians and there is large scale combat all over the place. So CCP saying they want more fighting is really not true. There is node killing amounts of PvP.

Posted: May 25th 2011 10:06AM Mord Fiddle said

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Mord Fiddle's response to Brendan Drain:

http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/sock-puppet.html

Posted: May 25th 2011 11:42PM StevieTopSiders said

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Your wrongness is laughable.

1. An alliance does not need jump bridges to fly to one side of the galaxy, fight, and then return home. Rather, most armadas, after installing jump clones in their home system, will go on long Titan-bridging trains to a staging system. Then, they can fight the enemy to their hearts' content. But what if they're attacked? They simply jump-clone back home to defend their space. This was brought up at the 0.0 roundtable at FanFest: CCP was surprised to find that people utilized jump clones in such a manner. They thought just like you did: people use Jump Bridges.

2. Jump bridges do little to increase PvP. If a fleet of 50 battleships jump-bridges into a system, they will simply warp to the gate and continue on the jump bridge chain. A sizable enemy fleet cannot hide in the system, waiting to engage in PvP. What does happen, however, is the lone miner, ratter, or pilot late for a CTA gets ganked by a single, cloaked enemy waiting at the gate between two jump bridge systems. Like the anomaly nerf, this harms the individual, not the power block.

@Calfis- WhiteNoise. has in fact defended its space at times (winning hilariously against -A- in the process), but they are simply letting the space fall. They could have warriors on both fronts, but it is more in their interests to keep large fleets running 23/7 in NC space than to split their forces between North and South.

@Bedazzled- You must be dumb. "The recent change to jump bridges (and by extension titan bridging)." There is absolutely no change to titan bridging . You've probably never been to 0.0 and consider yourself an armchair general, but here you are flat-out incorrect. A Jump Bridge is a little structure anchored outside the shields of a POS (Player Owned Starbase). Each Jump Bridge has a counterpart at another POS in a faraway system. When your ship is within 2,500m of a Jump Bridge, you can click "Jump," and for a few units of fuel, you will magically appear on the other side. In a Titan Bridge, a Titan (biggest ship in the game), which has been fitted with a "Jump Portal Generator" module, locks onto a cynosaural field beacon (which has been dropped in the destination system) and creates a bridge to it. Nearby ships may then right-click the Titan and select "Jump" causing them to magically appear in the destination system. The Titan also jumps through.

tl;dr This is not a swipe against any powerblock, jus the mobility of individual players. Power blocks still move via Titan bridges, and all this does is increase the chance that the lone miner/ratter/fighter is ganked jumping between two jump bridge systems.

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