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Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 12:47AM Integral said

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I'm really interested in Smite. Curious to see Hi-Rez take on the MOBA genre.

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 8:55AM ColRoofles said

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@Integral I was too until I read "DOTA-inspired." How many DOTA clones do we need exactly? There's nothing wrong with having a choice, but considering every option is practically the same, catering to casual players with their terribly limited and simplistic RTS-style click to move controls and low number of abilities available per class, what's the point?

I'm all for arena type games, but the "genre" could use a little bit more diversity. As it is now, the only game that dares to be different is Bloodline Champions.

PS Bring back Fury!
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 10:11AM Macabre 13 said

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@ColRoofles

While the DotA genre might seem limited and simplistic at first glance, the games are incredibly deep at a competitive level.

Not so much from the individual aspect, but from the team dynamics.

Team composition, map awareness/control, assistance, ganks, counter-ganks, baiting, misdirection, and lane pushing all make for a very complex dynamic that revolves more around judgment, split-second decision making, positioning, and teamwork than which button/ability to push.

In other words, don't underestimate their complexity just because you only see 4 abilities in the skill bar...
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 11:41AM ColRoofles said

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@Macabre 13 These games are equally dull and unsophisticated at a competitive level to everyone with a proper perspective. Even a swimming pool may seem like the largest and deepest body of water in existence to a kid used to jumping in puddles who's never seen a lake or the ocean.

Complex or not, enough is enough. All I'm saying is that arena games could use a weensy bit more originality.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 1:56PM Zyrusticae said

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@ColRoofles
Now, hold on...

Would you say chess is "dull and unsophistacted"? After all, each player only has 6 different kinds of pieces that, with one exception, *always* move the same way.

You're rather obviously missing the whole point, which is that it's the competitive aspect of the game that produces complexity, not the game itself. Chess is only a minor step up from checkers, but it's a world-class competitive game with its own ladder system and incredibly deep layer upon layer of strategy.

MOBA games are much like chess... except with 10 or 6 players per match instead of 2, with the pieces individually controlled by players and capable of many, many more possible actions on the "board", the board itself being far more complex than a chess board's series of redundant squares. You see what I'm getting at here?

It's pretty upsetting that you claim "proper perspective" when, really, it's you who lacks perspective. I mean, hey, let's look at shooters, where your only actions are to strafe, point, and shoot, with the latter changing based on what's in your hands at the time. And yet they manage to be incredibly competitive in spite of this simplicity.

Complicated RTSes are not the pinnacle of competitive gaming, contrary to what you seem to believe. Sometimes, simplicity works.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 2:46PM Macabre 13 said

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@ColRoofles

It's obvious you think complexity is just a matter of more levers to pull and buttons to push, or more spreadsheets to analyze and numbers to crunch.

But whatever, to each their own.

(Though I'd bet my bottom dollar you couldn't get *anywhere near* a competitive level of play in LoL or HoN, despite how "unsophisticated" they are... See, I can be an elitist jerk too! lol)
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 2:52PM Integral said

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@ColRoofles I'm sorry but I agree with everyone else. You're argument isn't very thought out. I wonder if you even read the article I was talking about or ever played one of these games. To each his own I suppose.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 3:14PM ColRoofles said

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@Zyrusticae

That is not at all what I believe. The only reason I mentioned RTSes in one of my previous posts was to underline the fact that most of the games in question use the same controls Warcraft III uses. And why is that? Well, because the game that fathered the whole genre, DOTA, was just a WC3 mod.

Your chess and checkers analogy doesn't really work here. Let me explain as best as I can. Does WASD movement allow for a greater degree of character control than point and click movement? Undeniably, yes. In light of this, would replacing point and click movement with WASD controls make the game more complex? Yes. Is a game with, say, 8 abilities per class more sophisticated than a game with 4 abilities per class? Duh. It's simple, really, and there's nothing more to debate.

I just wish some of the devs decided to grow some actual balls, which, in turn, would enable them to come up with movement, targetting, combat systems of their own, that maybe catered to a slightly different group of gamers who want from their competitive games even more complexity that the DOTA-inspired cookie cutters allow for.

Unfortunately, people have to jump the usual HEY-LETS-MAKE-AN-EXACT-COPY-OF-THE-MOST-POPULAR-GAME-RIGHT-NOW bandwagon just to crash it into a brick wall with a huge sign that says, "Enough already." Time will tell how many more clones need to be churned out by these unimaginative hacks before people get sick of them.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 4:07PM Integral said

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@ColRoofles

guys.... I think we fed the troll.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2011 12:43PM meanicK said

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gonna fail... LoL has the perfect concept. guess no one will change for this new game.

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 4:07AM JuliusSeizure said

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Out of curiosity, is Diablo III going to get covered in this column when there's news to report on it? I mean, it's not a MOBA, but it is a not-quite-MMO.

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 5:44AM paterah said

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@JuliusSeizure You can play it offline (which is also its main feature).
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 7:48AM Nightbreak said

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@paterah I am not sure it is accurate to say that playing Diablo offline is its main feature. My impression is that a good chunk of the playerbase plays exclusively over Bnet, and the online economy is really important to the game. With PvP arenas and Blizzard pushing Bnet integration for all its games, Diablo 3 will probably be even more online than its predecessors.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 8:10AM Macabre 13 said

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@paterah

The following is a direct quote from Bashiok on the D3 forums:

"There is offline single player, but it's something we're going to attempt to discourage as best as possible."

Yeeaahh... I wouldn't exactly call that the "main feature."

They want everyone online, and they're going to do everything they can to incentivize everyone playing over battle.net.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 11:05AM Brendan Drain said

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@JuliusSeizure I'd definitely like to cover Diablo III, god knows I'll be playing it to death when it comes out. It depends largely on how much actual news is released on the game leading up to and after launch, if they expand over time like MMOs and other MOBAs, and whether the leads here at Massively decide that it fits the column's theme. I'll have to check that one up.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 11:44AM Rialle said

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@Macabre 13

Yes, Blizzard is really trying to push Battle.net. This is abundantly clear when they decided that SC2 would have no LAN play. I expect players who opt not to play D3 online (if they even have such an option in the final version) will not be getting the full game experience.
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 9:06PM JuliusSeizure said

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@Brendan Drain

Thanks Brendan! Also, I just remembered the PvP arena system they're including, so I guess there will be a MOBA mode in addition to the main PvE dungeon crawl mode. :)
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 4:17AM Dril said

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I actually started playing LoL...and I'm someone who, having played Warcraft 3 from '02 to about a year ago on b.net, only joined about four DotA games.

And you know what?

It's actually a lot of fun. But only because I can play against bots in the Co-op mode. It's still mildly challenging (i.e. we lost because someone afk'd from the start) and people don't really give much of a shit during it...

...AND I still earn IP to buy stuff. Damn good move putting in PvE if you ask me.

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 11:53AM Loopy said

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@Dril What is it that you find challenging about the online games? Because you will have so much more fun playing against actual humans.

When i first started playing LoL my main concern was high expectations from others. But at low levels, nobody really cares if you screw up. I mean that's how you learn tactics.

You can only learn so much by playing against bots. It's a whole different ballgame playing against a thinking opponent. I would highly recommend stepping into the PVP aspect of LoL. It will be hard at the beginning, but it's far from unforgiving. And you'll feel great after your first win, trust me :).
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 12:16PM cozmic0 said

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@Loopy

Ditto that. Just try jumping in on a normal game and enjoy your time as a low level summoner, it's actually really forgiving and against Dota-stereotypes people are more understanding and having less expectation on a lower summoner level.

I did and never looked back at playing against bot. It's just a whole level of different (better) experience, the only downside is that all those wins could get really addicting :P


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