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Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 4:51AM bobfish said

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I would return for a free max level toon, I never could stand levelling and raising the level cap every other expansion was always a slap in the face for me and anyone else who didn't enjoy levelling.

Posted: Apr 24th 2011 5:08AM MewmewGirl said

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@bobfish


@bobfish And giving you a max level toon would be a slap in the face of every single person who's spent hundreds of hours to get there. You know - the people who actually have been supporting the game and paying their salaries for the past 7 years.

By the way - how is raising the cap a "slap in the face" anyway? You get more content to go through, more game to play, and that's somehow a slap in the face? To you the goal of the game is to get max level if raising the cap is such a slap to you - so you want them to give you a game that's already finished for you and that will get you to come back...why exactly? To stand around flexing saying "oooweee I'm max level"?

Is level all that means anything to you? Isn't it playing and experiencing all the game has to offer along the way? All that tons of content, story, gameplay up to that point is what the game is about. NOT hitting max level. The level is just a bonus and a point of respect for those that have earned it. Wanting to go into a PvE game and be max level is just foolish. The entire point of EverQuest 2 is to experience the journey on the way...
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:28PM Wurm said

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"Guild Wars has been offering max-level PvP toons since 2005 (after unlocking them with another max-level character)" ?

I am quite sure you can make a max-level(20) PvP toon as the very first toon you create in Guild Wars.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 6:57PM Irem said

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@Wurm
Yup. And they never leave the PvP area. It's a completely, totally different case born of the way they went about separating PvE and PvP entirely--starting out a PvP toon at level 20 is the -only- way you can do it.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 6:58PM Jef Reahard said

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@Wurm

Fixed it, thanks.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:32PM Graill440 said

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Again this is a case of sad people not watching their own lanes and being busy bodies worrying about everyone else. I never have played EQ but i could care less about someone "buying in", who cares? Obviously the hardcore busy bodies do but they are the vocal minority on the forums and do not represent the majority of paying subs that do not visit game forums.

Until people get the silly notion out of their heads they actually accomplish things in a game that means something other than burn up time in entertainment these types of folks will bitch and whine. Of course one mans garbage is another mans treasure, this saying works for entertainment too.

People need to worry about the real things, payment for services and support/performance in the title, and complain till those points are working fluidly, not much else to worry about in a game other than how soon i delete the game and character and move on to the next title.

I hope these devs smack these pathetic busybodies around and start selling full legendary or epic character packages in all games just for spite, in the short term those hardcore folks will cry and pout but in the end they will fall into line.....they always do. Funny stuff.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 7:50PM ChromeBallz said

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@Graill440 Rather than offering insta max-levels, a better idea would be to speed up levelling if you really want to.

Thing is that you're skipping 95% of the content by starting at max level and especially new players will have no clue what they can actually do. A sense of progression is essential to any RPG and you don't get that by removing most of the progression. It sounds obvious but apparently a lot of people don't understand this.

If you want to play a game at max level and not worry about any levelling at all i can only recommend something like Quake Live, Unreal Tournament or Super Smash Bros (be honest, that's what it boils down to). If you play an (MMO)RPG purely to skip the content it's probably not your type of game, so rather than try to convince the developers to remake the game as you want it, either play a game that's already to your liking or make one of your own. You don't get your opinions across by continuing to pay the developer for a game you obviously don't like.

To clarifiy: I'm using "you" in a general sense, not aimed at Graill. Just trying to illustrate the incredibly strange mindset that most gamers have fallen into lately: Pass on a game you would like and buy one you don't like, then try to change the latter into the former. Especially the MMO-public is guilty here. The hardcore gamers usually have valid complaints (specific issues and valid arguments on certain game mechanics), and while they can sound rather rude they do usually have a good point.
Then there's the casual gamers who just play to have a bit of fun and don't involve themselves in the extreme numbercrunching of the first group, they also have little to no connection with the game other than the people they play with.
Lastly there's the fake "casual" and "hardcore" gamers - Usually people in that mindset i mentioned earlier who have massive entitlement issues. Rather than taking their money elsewhere if the game isn't to their liking or has changed too much (to their liking), they keep paying for it just so they can complain, usually without even giving any solutions to the problems they complain about. Most of the small number that does show pretty clearly why they're not game designers.

TLDR: Why play a game you don't like? You have nothing invested in a game aside from time - You lose nothing by quitting except possibly an addiction. I do agree with one point though, a lot of progression is done through simply spending time, more skill is needed since it's a more rewarding experience to progress with, both in PvE and PvP. Removing progression entirely however is a very bad idea, especially in games that pretty much revolve around that concept (like pretty much all MMO's).
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Posted: Apr 24th 2011 5:30AM MewmewGirl said

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@Graill440

You're the one sticking your head out into the other lanes. You say you have never played EverQuest and so how can you say it's fine to give people max level characters? Yeah - I don't care what they do in games I've never played either. But if you've been there working your way up it does matter if someone else just gets it for free. Not to mention that it spoils the entire experience of so many stories and fights along the way - why ruin almost the entire game for people?

The fact is you don't have a vested interest in the game (or much of any game from what I can tell by the way you speak). Does level matter? No, but it is one of those perks you need to "earn" to wear. I'm far from hardcore or a "busybody" (snicker) - but you're not doing anybody any favors giving them max level characters in a game like EQ2 which is primarily PvE based.

It's like playing any other RPG and being given the max level to run to the boss and miss the entire journey. It's just silly and doesn't make sense. It's not that they suddenly get free levels as I barely play so anybody can be higher than me within a few weeks - it's that they ruin the entire game for those people they give these characters to. You're not going to have any more fun just being put at high level - because if *EVERYBODY* can just be put there it's not much different than being level 1. The level means nothing anymore and the entire rest of the game suddenly is boring. Those that have supported the game for years and earned the level get screwed over.

High level characters become valueless. Low level people going through the game become frustrated and feel cheated, people working to build up to that level suddenly have no reason to anymore. You end up killing the game. It's a desperate move, cheesy. And you as someone who does not play, you don't have a say in it that matters. No offense.

I don't play WoW. If they started to sell max characters in WoW would I care? Not really. Heck I'd probably even like one. But it would feel boring and pointless fast and all the people that earned them would feel cheated. Not playing I don't really care tho. You're just jumping from one game to the other with no vested interest at all. You're not staying anyway so of course you don't care - it's never going to actually be your community that you stay in.

It's a move that destroys most of the game, cheapens levels, upsets most of the community. To claim only hardcore people care is a joke. I play the game about an hour every two weeks and I still care.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:37PM (Unverified) said

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Smokejumper has always been an idiot. This latest faux pas doesn't surprise me in the least.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:54PM Interitus said

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@(Unverified)

He's an idiot because he tried to get feedback from the player community? It was simply an idea that he put forth. There were no plans to put it in motion, justa what do you think. Seriously, I would love to have this sort of relationship in some MMOs where they post topics purely to get player feedback.

Instead of just doing an unpopular game changer and the player having no input.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:47PM Dumac said

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This is something i wanted to write about in todays daily grind but couldn't be bothered ... But i wanted to say that players are overreacting way too much and that as a consequence developers, who would always naturally say they engage with the community regularly when asked, are rarely ever putting out ideas like this in the open.

So that's good, i like that. But i don't like the idea. :) Guild Wars PvP insta-lvl20's was designed for. EQ2 wasn't ... Why did you push the progression so high up that you feel its difficult (and boring!!!) to climb to. Why didn't you think about this a bit sooner. But back to todays daily grind, now they have something to think about for EQ Next.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 5:53PM Lenn said

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It seems to be the logical next step. Other games have been "dumbed down" to get people to max level a.s.a.p. What Georgeson is brainstorming about (and remember that's all it was; he said so himself) is making that process even faster.

Personally, I don't care about it. For me the journey is as important as the destination. I would never take such an offer myself. But I wouldn't be surprised if they actually introduced this. It's only a matter of time before others follow suit.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 6:20PM Seffrid said

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Free max-level characters today, bought max-level characters in the Marketplace tomorrow.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 8:19PM Saker said

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@Seffrid
Thought the same. If $oE can make a holy-dollar (can I hear a "Praise Mammon"!, Testify!) they'll do it!
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 6:25PM (Unverified) said

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Interacting with your community isn't a bad thing. What's bad is interacting with them by proposing hackneyed, money-grubbing ideas that you should have known that they would hate.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 7:09PM alucard3000 said

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Hehe it is kind of interesting that people get into such an uproar over such trivial things.I honestly dont see how it could be a bad thing if it makes the population of your game a bit larger and adds some funding to your little game for further development.Honestly I am at a point where I care less about some games boring pve grind just so I can experience the higher level pvp that is one reason why I am having an immensly fun time in Mount & Blade Warband- no pve grind needed to play it and on the cRPG mod money is earned in the matches to purchase gear so you earn whlie you pvp no pve or monthly sub fee for that pve grind needed.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 7:15PM Daelen said

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Very very dumb idea to say out loud. Hhave a come back weekend where people with existing toons get to the level needed to start Velious might have been easier to sell. That said when I left EQ2 leveling a toon was crazy fast. Playing casually, 4-10 hours a week, i think I capped my SK in a month?

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 8:23PM Saker said

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@Daelen
EQ2 has gotten easier and faster for some time, far too fast really (been WoW-ified). I switch off xp so as to actually, you know see/play the game. It shares the basic issues you have with any old level based game, it's all about the high levels, there's little in the way of new players so you try and cater to the high levels (where the players are).
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 7:27PM Yellowdancer said

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Ya know...over on DCUO forums, we beg the devs to just come say hello to us. They refuse to do even that. And this is why. Instead of talking to the devs, they threaten and verbally abuse them. In the end, its just going to turn around and hurt the community. Cause now SOE will not come to the forums and make a decision on their own that the community does not like. (NGE anyone? Same thing happened back then).

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 10:12PM ChromeBallz said

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@Yellowdancer
I should point out that that "dev" had the brilliant idea of making 95% of EQ2's content obsolete. I don't know many development studios where most of the devs would be perfectly happy to throw away the work they've done over the past 10 years - Georgeson didn't just step on the players' toes, he steps on the toes of nearly all his colleagues.
Political correctness only goes so far. When you make a gigantic mistake such as this (pretty much showing the public that the internal communication is a wreck and people are getting desperate to gain marketshare), some swearing should be allowed in my opinion.
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