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Reader Comments (13)

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 8:52PM Morreion said

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Great article- Wasteland Diaries has perhaps the best screenshots out of all of the Massively columns. You always make me think about going back to FE, Ed.

My theory, for what it's worth, about why many people get worked up about dying in PvP:

PvE in games is generally easy and players often spend the majority of their time doing it. PvE gives them a feeling of being powerful, because they may die once out of every 40 PvE encounters, let's say.

Then PvP happens. PvP is generally much harder than PvE. Suddenly a person goes from having a 1,000 victory / 10 defeat record in PvE to having maybe a 50 / 50 kill / death ratio in PvP. They aren't feeling particularly skilled, and lash out about that.

Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 1:56AM (Unverified) said

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@Morreion Don't waste your money man. FE still has cartoony combat and the servers are practically empty. Part of it is design ( lots and lots of towns ) but most of it is the fact that the whole game is filled with Kill 10 Rats and FedEx Missions and nothing else. It gets boring quick. The PvP is lacking unless your in one of said clans. And they just lost 3 of the biggest clans in the whole game:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/126/view/forums/post/4184084#4184084

I find it funny that the PvP community gets crippled by one whole faction mass quitting and Edward skips over it. I do wonder with all the coverage Massively gives FE- how much they get paid.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 9:59AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)
The PvP community hasn't been crippled, it's been cleaned up. The delusional leadership of those clans left the game. Most of the players stayed and joined existing clans or created new ones. I didn't write about the situaution because I didn't feel an overwhelming need to draw attention to a so-called "adult" gaming community acting like a bunch of babies.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2011 12:13AM SpencerRuler said

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@(Unverified) Following the link, sounds like they have a shitty PR department.
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Posted: Apr 23rd 2011 10:30AM TehKlute said

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@(Unverified)

Yep, anyone that is passionate about a game *must* be getting paid off.. Personally I am glad the massively writers have sunnier dispositions than most of the doom and gloom readers.

Posted: Apr 25th 2011 12:20PM Space Cobra said

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In regards to people being ticked off, I think it has more to do with people focusing on doing something else and wanting to get it done. Basically, many people still treat MMOs and a single-player game with social benefits when they need/want them. This ain't a bad thing: I do it, too, at times. But sometimes, you have people that pop on and want to go to a certain place. Maybe to explore. Or you have people who mine. Even corpse runs. And example would be your interceptor (If I understand how it works in-game, if not, apologizes), basically, you are focused on getting your things in order before you PvP again. If you had to trek out to retrieve your Interceptor, any new/additional PvP would make such retrieval a longer ordeal.

Also, in the minds of those not interested (or thinking of) getting killed in regards to an NPC vs. a PC doing the killing. Yes, they may get angry at an NPC wolf that happened off it's AI path, but not too angry since it is a code, but a player has a choice to kill (or grief) and yeah, they could choose not to line you up in their sights, but they did. So, there is that.

It is mostly about focus. One can enter into a PvP zone and expect such, even if they are trying to do (or collect) something else and would rather not. A match/duel could begin (with PvP flags enabled) but if you are in the middle of a PvP quest, you are not focused on enjoying "a sudden round of PvP", but on doing the quest. Maybe later, if you finished, you'd be more open to it.

Many players, PvP and PvE, are still a bit conceited in their view that game play should be one way or another and in some MMOs, yes, you accept a risk of more PvP or don't, depending on the MMO. But these players still tend to play a certain way, especially the vocal ones, and don't account for a balanced playstyle. It's just the nature of the game. And really, some games are not (and should not) be open-world PvP-fests and others are perfectly fine with it.

Heck, I like PvP in its own place/time. I like having control over it and either que up for it or going to a zone, but I can accept the dangers. I think more of these type of control over your experience is a bit of the key here. It's not just putting thought into making a character (DnD paper-style) and breathing life into it, but controlling one's agenda, like, "I am going to mine today," and be put-off by anything that may surprise you. Some people can embrace it, even in real life, but you have to be a certain mentality to dismiss a setback. Even a combo of personalities.

Look at real life. If I am going to an event in a car and I have a flat tire and no spare, how would one handle it (and let's go old-school and say no cellphone)? If I am on a tight schedule, I may grumble about it. If I am not, I enjoy it more in that, if I slowly drove on the shoulder to a small town and got my tire fix, maybe I explore and eat at the town. In the future, I have a story to tell. Sure, it wasn't fun at the time I was going through it, but I can laugh at it now.

Not all online experiences are like the above example and not everyone can look back and see the "bright side" of it.

Posted: Apr 25th 2011 12:34PM (Unverified) said

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@Space Cobra
Typically it's "hard core" PvPers that whine the most when they die. That's the part I don't get. Usually, if I kill a hapless scavenger in Haietta (only enemy factions, of course), they usually respond with a "I guess I had that coming". You would think that people that PvP would develop a better outlook on death over time, but many just seem to get worse.
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Posted: Apr 26th 2011 1:09AM Space Cobra said

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@(Unverified)

Ah, well, IMHO, that's a bit different kettle of fish than the hapless scavenger. There are certain PvPers who are aggressive in nature and I think this applies to RL. I mean, you get more griefers from those who love PvP than those who love PvE, so it seems. So, there is a certain mentality, it seems.

Many, like you, the author (Ed Marshall) and me can sort of shrug it off and jump back in most of the time. But I have noticed a certain class of player that have these big egos. In their mind/head, they think they are the biggest/baddest of them all, or at least "very,very,very good" (throw in some more "very" in that statement, if you like! ;) ). They tend not to be humble and they tend to brag on forums.

So, when you beat them and beat them again (or, even use the same tactics on them, like a surprise attack that kills them), they get very angry. Analyzing it, it also would seem, like my early statement, they want to "control their world". Again, IMO, many PvPers seems short-sighted when they want to promote "permadeath" and "free world PvP" in that, in their heads, they always seem to think how it would be to pwn anyone else in the game, but they never think how it would apply to them. I think, this is part of the reason (if we use the old Bartle/MUD personality test) that they target those who don't/won't PvP, such as RPers. Even though they SAY they want a challenge, this statement does not apply to them and IMO, I don't think it applies in their own minds.

So, even among PvPers, you will get those with "juvenile minds" that, if they keep getting beaten/killed, will probably rage-quit a game because they can't be their own "Top Dog".

Mind you, this is just a small segment of PvPers and they tend to be vocal in certain ways and tell-tale signs. This is not all PvPers. Like I said, I can and do PvP, if it's something I can control. In retrospect, this kind of PvPer can be like the PvE-er that quits, but they are coming from the other emotional spectrum (rage/ego versus being nice/doing-your-own-thing).

At least, that's my take on it.
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Posted: Apr 26th 2011 1:15AM Space Cobra said

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@Space Cobra

To add to the above: So really, in a way, much like some Trolls/groups try to comment that certain folks (RPers) take their game/characters seriously, I think these type of PvPers take things seriously as well, but in a different way. Yes, they won't RP and they will laugh and talk of RL things, but once you beat them at their game or when they get unnerved, they get flustered/angry at it. So, "at the moment", they take their PvP seriously for just that match. They "get into the game" and too much beating on them results in a bruised ego.
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Posted: Apr 26th 2011 1:31AM (Unverified) said

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Ive never really cared about dying in a game in fallen earth dying was almost irrelevant but there are the few times when you are in the middle of a quest or just travelling a LONG way from sector 2 to deadfall or something and you come across a pvp area and even when you are obviously trying to mind your own business there is this player who sees you and takes the time to chase you or breaks your vehicle thats when i go mad. because if i remember well my character was all buffed with dodge and endurance before they nerfed it and i could easily kill anyone i was lvl 50 and usually the ones trying to kill me where lower levels but why people seems to not have common sense when you see someone avoiding a battle trying to mind their own business why do you continue your mindless hitting. i remember once this guy shot my bike and i raped him he respawned and i raped him again ... and still i was wondering why the f im wasting my time here clanmates are waiting for me in los alamos...

Posted: Apr 26th 2011 12:56PM Space Cobra said

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Really neat old article/link here (on massively)

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/10/06/griefing-as-a-phenomenon/

Attached to today's "Daily Grind" about sharing your worst griefing experiences.

Posted: Apr 27th 2011 2:11AM (Unverified) said

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Every article of the author is how he can't understand why people don't PvP in Fallen Earth.

I think its time to shed light to this. Like he said, for every winner there has to be a loser. But noone is paying $15 for being a loser in the game, especially when those so called winners get on egotrip through that and rub the losers their loss into their faces every time. That's why FE PvP will NEVER lift off as the author wants. In typical FPS game it is simple, when you happen to join a server where you are being slaughtered over and over again, you can leave and join another server, where you have better chances, in FE you are stuck on the same map for forever.

Also, reading this article is pretty clear, that author hasn't played a full loot PvP game in his life. Gear in full loot PvP games is totally different compared to regular games with no risk. They are like consumables, you will lose them anyway, you simply go and pick another set from your vault and you are ready to go. It will be a bummer only, when you are wearing something, that you can only barely afford.

Posted: Apr 29th 2011 5:09PM (Unverified) said

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For me it's a rush when I kill or get killed. Right now I'm killed way more often than I kill. That can get pretty frustrating. But I'm trying to just run back from the cloner going over what happened and how to improve for the next round.
Maybe it's just a frustration tolerance thing? Not sure.

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