| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (91)

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:09PM Rengar said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc
Likely they want to keep the Subscription number confidential, and don't see any benefit to announcing them at this point in time.

I personally don't understand what the fascination with subscription numbers is to MMO players. If people like a game they should play it. If they don't like it don't play it.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:11PM Yellowdancer said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

And there is a open server tool on the front page where you can see the server population status of all 100 odd servers. The game is healthy. Stop wishing evil upon people.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:19PM Alchemda said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

Investors, Board, SEC, Stock market...

Thats why EA never releases subscription numbers, and why most MMO's dont release sub numbers unless they want to gloat or brag.

Trion isnt that type of Dev. They're modest and have no need to brag like that. They know they are doing great and dont feel the need to shout.

As for dungeon tool. I was vehemently against this as it really sucked the fun out of WOW for the sake of convenience. But numerous reports show it will be server specific. Which i really like, that way if you find someone you like, you can chat them after, friend them, or play with them again.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:30PM Mynsc said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@Yellowdancer

I've actually been following that tool.. I even posted a comment 2 days ago with some readings. I'll paste them here too:

14.03 - 20:00 - monday - 4 FULL, 20 HIGH, 15 MEDIUM, 2 LOW
19.03 - 20:00 - saturday - 0 FULL, 24HIGH, 14 MEDIUM, 3 LOW
01.04 - 20:00 - friday - 0 FULL, 9 HIGH, 30 MEDIUM, 2 LOW
07.04 - 20:00 - thursday - 0 FULL, 7 HIGH, 34 MEDIUM
08.04 - 20:00 - friday - 0 FULL, 5 HIGH, 36 MEDIUM
11.04 - 20:00 - monday - 0 FULL, 8 HIGH, 33 MEDIUM

It's definitely not a conclussive picture by any means, but I still find it hard to believe the subs are growing. This is for Europe btw, but from what I've seen, US is having the same trend.

I'm not wishing evil, I'm just curious and want some facts. I also hate lies and Trion's done a lot of that. Starting with "next-gen mmo that will revolutionize the industry" in the pre-launch months and continuing with the promise of a LFG tool that will be different from WoW's in the sense that it will not make people stay in the cities all the time.

My guess is that they're doing it again now saying to fansites everything is peachy. They're not saying it in an official press release because lying there actually has graver consequences.

I might be wrong tho ofc, there's still a month or so until it really gets weird if they dont release any numbers.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:33PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc Seriously, why the obsession with server populations? Why go so far as to actually keep tabs on them? It's not healthy, you know. Just play the game and enjoy it, or ignore it if you don't like it. You'll live longer.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:36PM Mynsc said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Alchemda

Yes, it might be server only at first, because they prolly dont have the coding done yet. But considering it's basically identical with WoW's system (like 80% of the game actually), can you honestly tell me that you're sure they wont make it cross-server sometime in the near future ?

Also, please, how can you be so naive in saying they're modest, they dont like to brag etc etc. Seriously, they're running a business, they've made a game that cost them millions and they want to make a profit out of it. It's how it goes. If the numbers would really be that great, they would post them, as this would have absolutely 0 bad consequences: haters would crawl into a dark corner, fanbois would rejoice, the rest would simply ignore it.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:42PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc 80% of the game is identical to WoW. Do you have a chart or something to back thath up as well?

Also, "prolly" is not a word. (Sorry, major pet peeve of mine - I had to say it.)
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:48PM Irem said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc
Not necessarily true. Releasing numbers now means that they'll be expected to release numbers regularly in the future, and if they wait to do that until they're absolutely sure that the game's population has stabilized, they run less of a risk of having people running around screaming that the game is dying if they experience a population drop in the next few months. This would be even worse for them if they -didn't- release the lower numbers, because then they would just be accused of a coverup if the population difference was noticeable. They're just being cautious and it's not a bad move (especially if it's true that they're exceeding their own expectations for population growth).
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 5:58PM Mynsc said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@Lenn

Well, let's take major game systems and see.

Lets start with what is different:

- rifts

Well, we're done with differences, lets go to what's identical or very close.

- quest system
- PvE - raids / dungeons
- PvP (warfronts)
- achievements
- trinity system of class roles
- character advancement
- builds (yes, soul system gives A LOT more freedom to choose, but essentially is the same principle as the dual speccing in WoW... just more of the same)
- LFG tool
- Crafting / professions
- companions / mounts
- stats / gear system (with sets, bonuses)
- artifacts (WoW's archeology, just a lot more primitive)
- anything else I forgot to mention. :D

Yeah, I know WoW didnt invent most of these, but my point is marketing yourself as a "next-gen mmo that will revolutionize the industry" AND "we're not in azeroth anymore" and then being a complete wow clone is kinda ridiculous.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:01PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

"I'm not wishing evil, I'm just curious and want some facts. I also hate lies and Trion's done a lot of that. Starting with "next-gen mmo that will revolutionize the industry" in the pre-launch months and continuing with the promise of a LFG tool that will be different from WoW's in the sense that it will not make people stay in the cities all the time."

That's not a lie, that's typical PR/marketing/hype. And it's not the LFG tool that makes people stay in the cities. If you're trying to make a group nowadays, don't you just spam chat with "LF DPS for RoF"? That hardly requires you to do anything in game. In fact, with the way you form a group now, you can literally just sit in the city, spamming chat, and then go do your dungeon. This tool won't change that.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:04PM Mynsc said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Irem

People are already expecting them to release numbers... it's what every game did until now. Poor Warhammer released numbers even when they were faling of a cliff. Maybe they're just taking their time, 3 months after release is the reasonable window imo. We'll see.

What bugs me is that they're saying its growing through unofficial channels and without any specifics. Why would they do this and not issue an official statement about it ? And if you're watching the server load tool, there isnt any hints the population is growing anywhere. Exactly the opposite.

So this whole thing smells fishy to me. Time will tell.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:08PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

"- quest system"

Everyone uses this quest system.


"- PvE - raids / dungeons"

Everyone uses raids and dungeons.

"- PvP (warfronts)"

Battlegrounds are not WoW-specific.

"- achievements"

That started out with consoles, WoW hardly started that.

"- trinity system of class roles"

Everyone has the trinity, but Rift also has souls specifically for support, so that can be seen as a...quadrility?

"- character advancement"

You mean with levels? Everyone does that. You mean with gear? Everyone does that.

"- builds (yes, soul system gives A LOT more freedom to choose, but essentially is the same principle as the dual speccing in WoW... just more of the same)"

Everyone has talents and soul trees and etc. This is different because you have way more to choose from and speccing hybrid is way more of an option. So no, it's not the same as WoW.

"- LFG tool"

Hasn't been implemented yet so you can't know the specifics, but WoW is hardly the only one to do this, and Rift's implementation might easily be different. Like it being single server.

"- Crafting / professions"

Loads of games do the same professions.

"- companions / mounts"

Loads of games do pets and mounts.

"- stats / gear system (with sets, bonuses)"

Everyone uses this stat/gear system.

"- artifacts (WoW's archeology, just a lot more primitive)"

If it's primitive then it's not really the same. Besides, artifacts are hardly core to the game.

Are all fighting games based on Mortal Kombat since they all have characters, arenas, and special moves, and you're supposed to KO the opponent? Are all shooting games the same because you use guns as weapons and you're supposed to kill people? Are all RPG's the same because they all have a story and characters?
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:09PM Mynsc said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@(Unverified)

"and then go do your dungeon."

Thats the key part right there. :D Teleporting directly to the dungeon pretty much ruins any need to go outside the city, travel, camp spawn in front of dungeons, occupy flight points... all the fun stuff basically.

In my opinion that was the big problem with WoW's LFG tool (and its something blizzard also admitted as not being ideal... but they had to implement it so the tool stays popular). Trion said it will try to avoid this but aparently they're doing the exact same thing as Blizzard. Go figure.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:11PM Lenn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc Alright, here goes:

- quest system
Pretty much every MMO out there has that.
- PvE - raids / dungeons
Hardly a WoW-exclusive MMO element either, now is it?
- PvP (warfronts)
They could have "ripped off" WAR's scenarios for that. Or GuildWars' PvP system, for that matter.
- achievements
City of Heroes had achievements long before WoW ever did. LotRO had achievements long before WoW ever did.
- trinity system of class roles
Yeah, again: pretty much any MMO in existence.
- character advancement
Wouldn't be much of an RPG without character advancement.
- builds (yes, soul system gives A LOT more freedom to choose, but essentially is the same principle as the dual speccing in WoW... just more of the same)
Ah yes, builds. WoW invented those, did it?
- LFG tool
CoH had an LFG tool before WoW.
- Crafting / professions
WoW was the first with crafting professions? Learn something new every day.
- companions / mounts
This is getting tiresome.
- stats / gear system (with sets, bonuses)
Didn't EverQuest pretty much have that? Or any of the countless single-player RPGs?
- artifacts (WoW's archeology, just a lot more primitive)
Which is a LOT more like EverQuest 2's feature.

I'm not denying there are many similarities between Rift and WoW, but it's downright silly to call it a WoW-clone, as you can clearly see, since WoW isn't exactly scoring high marks in the originality department.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:13PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

"Yeah, I know WoW didnt invent most of these, but my point is marketing yourself as a "next-gen mmo that will revolutionize the industry" AND "we're not in azeroth anymore" and then being a complete wow clone is kinda ridiculous."

Again, those are just marketing techniques. Almost every game pre-launch is "next-gen" and will "revolutionize the industry." If you know that WoW didn't invent these then why do you keep on saying that it's a WoW clone? Why not call it a clone of the game that implemented them first?
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:15PM Irem said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc
Yes, people are expecting them to release numbers, but once they actually do it, they'll be expected to keep doing so, which means showing how much the population has fluctuated. If they experience a huge drop for whatever reason, that will reflect badly on them. If they're outperforming their predictions, it's a good idea for them to not start crowing about huge numbers before they're sure whether or not those numbers are a one-time fluke.

I certainly see a lot of new players asking questions in-game, so there must be some growth -somewhere,- whether or not it's enough to warrant bragging about.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:17PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

"Thats the key part right there. :D Teleporting directly to the dungeon pretty much ruins any need to go outside the city, travel, camp spawn in front of dungeons, occupy flight points... all the fun stuff basically.

In my opinion that was the big problem with WoW's LFG tool (and its something blizzard also admitted as not being ideal... but they had to implement it so the tool stays popular). Trion said it will try to avoid this but aparently they're doing the exact same thing as Blizzard. Go figure. "

Then if you're not a fan of teleportation, say it. It's not the LFG tool or the fact that a group is made for you that ruins the social aspect, it's the fact that you're automatically teleported. So next time, tell Trion not to teleport, and don't start whining over a LFD tool.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:22PM Rialle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Mynsc

Nobody but Blizzard and the F2P titles (and let's face it, the F2P numbers are nonsense) release figures nowadays. When is the last time Sony said how many EQ2 subs there were?

Heck, Blizzard has stepped down the frequency they release subscriber numbers as far as I can tell.
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:25PM Mynsc said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@Lenn

You are missing my point. I never said WoW was completely original or that games shouldnt take stuff from previous games. It's how the market evolves.

But if you take each game AS A WHOLE, you cannot possibly say CoH, Guild Wars, Warhammer or even LotRO are WoW clones (or the other way around). Sure, they have some stuff in common, but each have enough differences, unique stuff, to make them stand apart and really feel different.

Does Rift really have that ? Can you honestly say it brings enough uniqueness to the table that it makes it stand apart from WoW ? I for one searched for this evidence for almost a month after launch (and in 4 beta stages) and havent found it. And I really wanted to. The only thing Rift did for me was to make me want to go back to WoW again. Why play an unpolished and lower quality copy when I can try the original ?
Reply

Posted: Apr 22nd 2011 6:32PM Mynsc said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@Rialle

They're not releasing numbers anymore because they're prolly going down. I'd be surprised if at the end of the year they'll have more than 10 mil subs.

Also the EQ2 example I dont know if its valid... there really is no point in releasing numbers for older games. WoW is the exception to the rule because, well, it's WoW, the freakin unbeatable giant that keep growing and growing (or atleast did until now).

But if your game is new and doing well, you should be yelling the specifics anywhere you can. There is no marketing technique better than showing you are succesful.
Reply

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW