| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (14)

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 7:24PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"lower-level members who are working on playing catch-up have an easier time getting caught up on raid gear, meaning less "back-farming" for guilds... for every piece of gear that a member buys, there's one less piece a casual guild has to farm"

Less time spent hitting the pellet dispenser? I don't see Blizzard rushing to drop Bind On Pickup!

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 7:26PM aurickle said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
There is another flaw in the "earn it to wear it" argument. Let's say that the Helm of Awesomeness requires on average 20 runs for a raider to earn and that each run took 3 hours. So the helm is basically worth 60 hours of time.

Now let's say that someone hates raiding but loves crafting. This person is able to make 1 platinum an hour with his crafting. Now let's say he is willing to spend 100 platinum to buy the helm.

Guess what? Both players earned the helm! One did it through raiding, but the other did it by earning the money to buy it. And in fact, this second person actually invested more game time into accomplishing the same goal. How can it then be argued that this second person was undeserving or didn't earn the item?

Frankly, anyone who would make that argument is in effect saying that a raider's time is worth more than anyone else's. That's an elitist attitude, pure and simple.

(For the record, my numbers above are pure fiction. I have no idea how long it takes to earn the money or how much it might take to buy an item. That's irrelevant because the point of the argument is that time is money.)

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 10:55PM Germaximus said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@aurickle What a joke.

No the farmer did not put as much effort into the item as the raider.
Oh looky someone farmed herbs or ore for a long period of time, he ran around for hours doing basically nothing and earned gold! oh yeah he sure earned it...
Not.

Maybe if the raid bosses were so easy it was like picking a flower off the ground i could see that as a valid argument.
Reply

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 9:43PM vaiden said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Possible problem with raid loot being bind on equip would be people who may not usually do a rmt may now be willing to just for that loot. Gold farmers will now have full on raid forces to kill the raid mob to sell gear at a great profit. Raiding guilds may not have to back track for guild members, but will require people to have so and so gear to get in, which again if they want in bad enough, click buy.

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 10:12PM (Unverified) said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Don't got the time, patience, or desire to earn it the right way, the way it was designed to be earned?

GTFO and go play a singleplayer game.

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 10:19PM Saker said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
Reason I left EQ1 waaaay back in the day was because of the extreme disgust I felt seeing all the very low level players running around in gear that was very far above what I as a regular real player could get a hold of through any kind of normal means. They were "twinks", and i deeply hated that. It completely went against the whole idea of the work/quest to achieve the item. Many of my best memories in these games is the achievement of getting some prized item. Otherwise, if it's easy/given what's the adventure, what's the point? One of the reasons I get bored with these games pretty quickly is they're just too easy. There's no sense of accomplishment when it's handed out on a platinum platter.

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 10:31PM DarkWalker said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Without getting into the issue of earning the gear, if the raid is not fun enough to be a played for it's own sake, I think it should be dragged back to the drawing board and made better.

Ideally, players should be raiding because it's fun; if the sole motivation to raid is to get a shiny piece of gear at the end, the developers have failed horribly.

So, if the developers did their job, I don't think raids would die out if the rewards were obtainable in some other way. There would perhaps be less players raiding, but if those that stopped raiding were the ones that didn't like it in the first place, the end result might be positive for the game.

Posted: Apr 18th 2011 10:50PM Germaximus said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
If non raiders can buy raid gear whats the reward for the raiders?

I suppose it would make more sense if the "hardcore" players were easily differentiated from the casuals but that wont be the case.

I havent seen "reward" from end game in a long time, not since EQ really and i hate that game beyond words.

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 12:52PM aurickle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Germaximus
What's the reward? How about a way to make more money doing what you enjoy doing -- raiding? Money that you can then use to buy stuff that's gotten from activities you don't like -- such as picking flowers.
Reply

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 2:21PM Germaximus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@aurickle lol Who said i dont like these activities?
Ive made 100's of thousands of gold on my own. When you take the reward out of raiding theres really no point.
Its just that simple.
Reply

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 4:38PM aurickle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Germaximus
What happened to a sense of accomplishment? What about fun? Or are raids just no fun and the only reason to do them is because of exclusive rewards that come from them? If that's the case then I would say that the design is broken; not the rewards system. So then BoP rewards are nothing more than a band-aid that does nothing to address the inherent flaws in the system.

The content should be fun enough that the rewards are a nice thing to get but not the only reason for doing said content.
Reply

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 4:59PM aurickle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Germaximus
Actually, let me put this into real-world context. Imagine an Olympic medalist who chooses to put his medal up on eBay. Now imagine that I win that auction and decide to wear the medal around town.

1) Will my doing so in any way sully the medals won by other athletes? Not at all. They still got their medals by competing. The value of their accomplishment is not diminished by someone having sold his medal. Nor does him selling his medal mean that he sold his accomplishment. He didn't. He's the one who won the competition; not me. I'm just wearing a hunk of metal and ribbon.

2) Will this make the Olympics meaningless? Will the challenge now be gone? Will the reason to compete now be gone? Again, the answer's a resounding no.

An accomplishment is of value for what it is; not for what it awards. By the same token, the Olympic committee could suddenly decree that swimmers are allowed to wear jet packs. New time records would appear on the spot, but that wouldn't invalidate what Michael Phelps accomplished. Everyone would still admire his accomplishment as an athlete even though the content has since been made easier. Again, this is because the accomplishment has meaning rather than the reward.
Reply

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 1:23AM Graill440 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I raid, and i get gear but some of the people on this thread give raiders, groups, and solo players a bad name, you know who you are.

The "who deserves what or earned what" argument is as invalid as as a dev stating MMO's require raids, they dont, devs are simply lazy and make these choke points for large groups to grind time sinks for subs, something that the majority blissfully ignores on purpose.

What the argument really comes down to at its core are the busybodies, those that think they are "hardcore" or deserving of some other ignorant title that means something. what it boils down to are people in their own ignorant selfishness not watching their own lanes.

Who really cares that someone is selling off a rote action raiding piece to anyone for whatever reason? Who cares what a "hardcore" raider thinks in the first place? I certainly dont, i run one raid one time and thats it, a dungeon, one time, why do it again? It wont change. In fact, if the people that like repeating raids want to sell or trade something out, i really do not see the problem other than some malcontent that cant watch their own goings on and has to look at what everyone else is doing and then bitch about how someone else did this or that por shortcutted to gain something. Who the hell cares?

Pathetic busy bodies are what make up the voiceful minority of "hardcore" raiders that cannot watch their own lane. These same people tell others to go play single player games since they cannot stand to see anyone having what they have, regardless of how they got it or how long they played to get it.

To those self serving, self deserving raiders, when you start paying my monthly sub then you can tell me what to do in my game, until then shut the hell up and watch your own lanes. In other words, mind your own F'ing business.

*Happy smile*

Posted: Apr 19th 2011 4:40AM fannysideways said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think you made some good points here.

I've been tempted to buy hard-mode gear before, since my guild were not yet ready to take on hard-mode raids. Certain items sold for around 300 - 400p. Earning that kind of money takes a lot of time, so you could say that you earned it in some way ;)

Took me ages anyway!

Featured Stories

Make My MMO: September 14 - 20, 2014

Posted on Sep 20th 2014 6:00PM

Perfect Ten: Terrible, terrible MMO names

Posted on Sep 20th 2014 3:00PM

The Stream Team: Anchors aweigh in ArcheAge!

Posted on Sep 20th 2014 1:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW