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Reader Comments (18)

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 7:40PM Faction 3 said

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/facepalm

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 7:41PM Faction 3 said

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/facepalm @Blizzard*

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 7:57PM Graill440 said

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For having 4 to 6 million monthly subscribers and roughly the same amount of time based subscribers (yes kids, the 12 mill monthly sub claim is false) i find it hard to believe that their are not sufficient tanks in that game. Other than raid in groups in the same dungeons over and over and over and over and over what would keep tanks away?

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 9:02PM (Unverified) said

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@Graill440 People like you amuse me.
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Posted: Apr 14th 2011 10:16PM Nenene said

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@Graill440
//"Other than raid in groups in the same dungeons over and over and over and over and over what would keep tanks away?"//

If I had to tank for WoW's current playerbase I'd refuse to do randoms too. There isn't enough gold, items, or mounts worth the irritation and abuse from the irate kiddies that infest it.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2011 12:58AM Furdinand said

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@Graill440 You do realize it isn't the size of the player population that is as important as the distribution of people wanting to play the tank or healer role? For various reasons, playing as dps in WoW is much more fun than playing a healer or tank for a disproportionate amount of the players. Less fun puts a cost on tanks and healers in existing game play. Adding incentives helps to off set those costs.
It also helps keep the ratio of roles in check. There will likely be shifting unbalances. If fewer people are queuing as dps, they will start to get the incentive.
It is a pretty smart improvement imo. Still not enough to get to play it again. Still suffering from raid healer burn out.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2011 4:26AM kasapina said

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Regarding that patch and tanks, this sums it up pretty well:
http://www.thedailyblink.com/2011/04/tragedy-of-the-commons/

Even in the past, there were dps geared (and sometimes even specced) classes that would queue as tanks just to skip the waiting time, then try to force another player in the group to tank instead of them, or try to tank and fail miserably, often blaming the healer and/or damage dealers.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2011 9:12AM fallwind said

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@Graill440 My name is Fallwind, and I was once a tank ("Hi Fallwind")

I left WoW because of what they did to tanking. In BC and Wrath, I felt powerful all the time, and like a god when I popped cooldowns. At points, I had more HP than the rest of my team combined. When I held agro, I held onto it like a broken tube of superglue in your back pocket holds onto your butt-hair.

Cata killed the fun. I was no more tanky than the dps warrior or dk, hell even the kitty-cow could turn bear and be nearly as good as I was. Cooldowns were baked in, and incoming damage assumed you had them up nearly all the time. Standing around waiting for healers to drink nearly ever pull killed momentum. In short, I felt mediocre... the only difference between me and the dps "tanky" classes was about 10-15% avoidance. Kingslayer to "meh" in two weeks of leveling.

woo.

I quit tanking randoms, focusing on just helping my guildmates, then I quit the game entirely.

Tanking isn't fun anymore. And new mounts are only going to delay the problem, not solve it. A new incentive is all well and good, but once the tanks have all the pets and mounts they want, they will be right back where they started... tanks have all the gear they need and stop running randoms. So they will need to add MORE items, MORE pets... vicious cycle.
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Posted: Apr 14th 2011 8:30PM xBludx said

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Because people are jerks to tanks who are learning how to tank.

I have tanked as a pally and that is ez-mode compared to my experience tanking as a warrior. But to be honest, I only tried it a couple of times because I got so much flack for mistakes and because people pulled aggro and pulled and were just generally in a hurry to blaze through as fast as possible. It was a long time ago, so I don't know how things are now, but it was a bad experience for me.

In cata, I tanked as a druid bear in the 40s (usually healed on that toon) and it was way harder than the pally. Some people just leave without even saying anything. It just makes it unappealing to tank.

Kids aren't patient enough to do it. And adults don't want to insulted by 12-year olds continuously, so...

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 10:47PM Seldra said

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@xBludx Exactly! If players weren't total douches in Randoms to tanks they'd be more players willing to tank dungeons outside of just friends and guildmates. This problem has become even worse since Cata but it's been around for ages. Random LFG's installation just placed it in a big ugly spotlight on a problem for everyone to see.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2011 7:16AM (Unverified) said

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@xBludx Exactly that. I have a tank, it's not my main but I do use it to tank raids for the guild. I never ever ever pug, I will queue if at least 3 out of the 5 people are in my own guild, I can deal with two puggers if I have the majority behind me. And no, I am not a bad or inconsiderate tank. I always ask if everyone knows tactics, I explain the fights, I do readychecks, I mark, I am patient. I however, do not need to be told to GO GO GO, I do not need to be told to shut up and leave tactics cause it doesn't matter by a 1k DPS wonder. I am sick of letting 15 year old ADHD monsters destroy my experience. I am very aware that there are super lovely people of all ages out there, I am. But this culture of 'handing everything out' has bred a very spoiled player base which I don't really care to come into contact with.

Blizzard can bribe me all they want, I'm not going to queue just to get a mount on an alt. I also find it a slap in the face thing, honestly, people have farmed Rivendare's mount for aaaages, and now tanks just get it handed to them? Ridiculous. I know, I know, I'm one of the oldies, I guess I'm bitter :) That's why I hide in my guild!
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Posted: Apr 14th 2011 10:06PM augustgrace said

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Tanking is right behind healing for catching unwarranted flak. I like playing tanks and healers but lately I've been stepping away from both just because I don't want to deal with jerks. It seems beyond many players to let the tank do his/her job properly, instead they run off and pull more mobs or rush ahead of the tank making it harder to control pulls. I'd love to sit back and play the dps role for once while watching tv or typing useless chatter.

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 10:12PM Nenene said

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/elitist hat on

This is what comes of such advanced 'casualization', so to speak. Make it so easy that everyone can play, and everyone WILL play, and that's the end of any sort of decent community outside of your own highly screened group of individual friends.

/elitist hat off

Posted: Apr 14th 2011 11:01PM Jeromai said

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Eliot is sneakily garnering lots of soapbox comments by refencing the popular tank issue going around the blogosphere anyway!

I shall derail further and link back to Kiasa, who has the best take on this tank bribery.
http://www.kiasa.org/2011/04/11/a-leader-is-one-who-knows-the-way-goes-the-way-and-shows-the-way/

It boils down to player expectations of the tank shouldering the greatest load and knowing the instances by heart, and yet both developers and players not supporting the tank role by offering less hostile places to practice and learn their role, be it creating tank/healing-specific tutorial spaces or places to test their builds, or even smaller solo-duo instances with the same layout to learn the map or just being patient with a learning tank as they make their way through.

Even in Rift, I've found it a less hostile environment if you run your first time in a dungeon as a dps or healer function, and learn it well before switching to tank role and performing it like you know the place blindfolded.

Um, somewhat back to topic. Do you think developers will ever embrace the idea of truly scaling dungeons, wherein the same layout can be used for a soloist (with say, minion-types as trash mobs and soloable elites as bosses and less reward), and scale up to the point of full teams with extra bosses, tougher gimmicks, best rewards, etc?

Posted: Apr 15th 2011 9:12AM Damn Dirty Ape said

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I play a tank and I can tell you that the biggest pain about tanking in cata is the irritating trash, and the fact that the tank (and often the healer) often take the blame for awful DPS players. Tanks are not only expected to know all of the little quirks of every boss (and with each expansion they get more and more quirky), but are also expected to know the quirks of every stinking piece of trash mob in the entire dungeon, which to CC, and which class can CC what.

Posted: Apr 15th 2011 9:20AM fallwind said

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@Damn Dirty Ape

Agreed. WoW's love affair with mana is utterly incapable of punishing DPS for their own mistakes.

Stand in the fire and take damage? healer's problem
Don't do the right thing and pull agro? tank's problem and healer's problem to heal em back up.
Lower their DPS? fight goes on longer and it's the healer's problem not to OOM

the only thing in WoW that can directly punish a DPS is a instagib void zone, and even then it just follows the same problem as lowering their dps.
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Posted: Apr 16th 2011 6:13AM Hurbster said

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Tanking just isn't that much fun in WoW anymore, I've given up pugging and now only run guild groups. Blizz in their wisdom decided to make the heroics just pure pain for tanking/healing classes. The abuse you get from snotty dps idiots certainly does not help at all.

Posted: Apr 20th 2011 2:05AM kasapina said

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A question for Ask Massively: What happened to the Community Detective column?

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