| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 3:45PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Rift actually has Rogue Tanking, and it's done surprisingly well for itself over it's short run thusfar. I personally will atleast try the Jedi Shadow at some point.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 4:00PM gildhur said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
See: Rift rogue soul, Riftstalker. It's a brilliantly fun type of class to play. Hopefully the Shadow is similar.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 4:36PM Interitus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This article feels like it says a whole lot of nothing.

The Jedi shadow can AC into an avoidance tank. Similar to say a monk in EQ2. It's not progressive, or complicated.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 5:00PM Lethality said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Interitus Eh, don't forget this is a Force-weilding tank. It doesn't always have to be about simple avoidance.

Reply

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 4:37PM Skyydragonn said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Just some info about WoW rogue tanking. it ONLY works on pure physical damge mobs. The moment a raid mob deals non-physical damage your roge tank crumples like wet tissue paper.

Theres a video out there explaining how to tank a rogue tanked a couple of various raid bosses, who event hough had ranged abilities all of those attacks dealt physical damage only.
Blizzard attempted to balance that factor when designing the death knight class who could take a fairl good physical beating and mitigate a lot of magical damage as well. but again the physical dmg reduction was based on high health pool and armor stats, not on dmg avoidance.

Tip at lvl 70 you needed to have 102% total avoidance as a rogue to be unhittable by physical attacks. Also you would NOT prioritize block as rogues could not block attacks (required shields which they couldn't equipe at all) you relied on Dodge then abilitites to both maintain agro and increase dodge chance .
Video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hjs5t4BQ0

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 4:40PM copperbird said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I had thought the smuggler/ agent would be the rogue type. It just sounds as though they'll be overshadowed completely by the jedi/ sith.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 5:03PM Tiresias said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@copperbird Multiple classes fill multiple archetypes. The Smuggler/Agent "rogue" specs are ranged stealth classes that fill support/control/ranged DPS roles. The Counselor/Inquisitor "rogue" specs are melee DPS with force power backup.

There is something for everyone, and the non-Force classes look darn cool. I will definitely be playing a Smuggler as an alt, though I will admit that the Counselor is likely to be my main.
Reply

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 5:00PM Tiresias said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Anyone ever play a Blink-tank Ninja in FFXI? The class was exceptionally difficult (and EXPENSIVE!) to play properly, relying on awareness, timing, and even a bit of luck, but it was capable of tanking enemies that normal tanks could not handle simply because it wasn't getting hit by anything -- not even spells.

It did have a weakness: area-effect spells would wipe out all the "shadows" in one shot, rendering it defenseless. Also, if the player managed shadows improperly and started getting hit they would take massive amounts of damage.

I really enjoyed playing an avoidance tank, and I also would solo as the game's absolutely most powerful soloing class: RDM/NIN; there was literally nothing short of raid mobs that I could not kill with that setup, even if the effort would take hours at times.

I would love to see a similar concept for the Jedi Counselor's Shadow path. If they do avoidance tanking right it will definitely be my class/spec of choice.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 7:48PM DeadInside said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Tiresias
Thanks, I was looking for someone to mention FFXI ninja. Its what I immediately thought of when I saw shadow tank. Just means a tank with lowish armor but crazy high avoidance skills. Not too hard to rationalize in game.
Reply

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 6:11PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think of this like an avoidance tank from EQ2 aka the Monk and Brawler. It was more aimed at Burst DPS, had Stealth, but could also tank. It was not the most viable tank as Crusaders and Warrior could out tank at every turn, but it was a tank. I was a little taken back by the idea myself, but I have likened to it and look forward to... well not playing it, but playing beside it.

Same is true for Sith Assassin

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 6:28PM Bezza said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Yep, as others have stated, the Riftstalker of Rift is a rogue tank and is fun to play. Cant hold the same aggro as a dedicted tank but can cope with the damage due to avoidance skills and good stratagy. I hope jedi shadow is similair cause it'll be a blast to play.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 6:43PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
A different approach is to self heal through the damage. Both shadow priests and warlocks can use this approach in WoW.

Another option is pet tanking. Warlocks and hunters can both pull off with some ease, it involves using a pet to absorb the majority of the damage and using your skills to heal your pet rather than focusing solely on DPS. It's not unheard of for pet classes to be able to solo content that regular tank types can't because of this. Throw in a traditional healer and your two man party can now fulfill all three traditional roles...

It should be noted that just because you can tank some things doesn't mean you can tank endgame content this way. These gimicks have flaws and if you rely on them too heavily you will find encounters that are nearly impossible to beat, (speaking of WoW.) It will be interesting to see if SWTOR will have that belief or if the rogue tanks will hold their own compared to the other available tank options.

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 7:03PM Kalex716 said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
i don't remember healers in the movies

Posted: Apr 12th 2011 8:41PM Interitus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Kalex716

2-1B
Reply

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 12:18AM BarGamer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
In Champions Online, the Unarmed Martial Artist was a Dodge-tank. Essentially, 50% of attacks never hit, what does get through is mitigated quite a bit, and lots of self-heals. Mediocre melee damage with Advantages specced for taunting rounds out the character. Most UMAs are quite comfortable soloing the entire game, with the exception of Legendary-level bosses. So it CAN be done.

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 9:42AM shamona said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
i also used my rogue in dragon age origins as a tank seeing as nobody could hit me. i think it is now clear that this is nothing new and that this "article" is pointless

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 10:08AM KDolo said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I dont understand why dodges and misses don't add to hate towards a player. I know that if I were in a fight and kept missing i'd get pretty pissed off.

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 1:01PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I know in PvP Rogues usually do very well at holding my aggro.

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 1:15PM Space Cobra said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Yeah, Larry, you seem to focus on one thing, although your intent may be to make us think about other classes and what they do.

The problem with a "Rogue-Tank" is that really, as KDolo says, it is not and really should not be a "tank" but an avoider of taking damage. They should be quick and agile and leap and dodge. Perhaps instead of "tank" we should use "boxer" (lite-division) or "Muhammad Ali" ("Float like a butter fly, sting like a bee") or "Kangaroo"?

But really, in a programming sense, it's just easier to equate "dodge/agility" with "AC" in games, particularly MMOs. Even if we see animations of a Rogue dodging and leaping over laser blasts, the system is not that far off from simple AC mitigation or "damage reduction".

From what I've seen, I am fairly sure SW:ToR does not have this, but I could be wrong. Many times, even if a separate dodge system is coded in along with the "AC sponge", it will wind up doing the same thing in a different way, so it could be a waste of resources (perhaps the only difference is when/if a Rogue is hit, he REALLY feels it as opposed to a Fighter/Tank, that you have to plink at to wear down).

As for the class breakdown/reveal of the news item, while I have no qualms with it (I like to solo and would like some way of doing damage mitigation on myself and that generally makes me look at adding a healing class/skill to my main class), I am wondering if it will dilute things for some players. You know, those folks who want to "read a book by its cover" in one sight and easily discern, "Okay, you are a cleric. You Heal," instead of, "You play a Bounty Hunter...umm...do you like or are you good at healing?" In the long run, IMO, I think this makes for a better MMO and is more inclusive, but I can see some players not liking it because suddenly there are no simple, straight-forward answers.

Posted: Apr 13th 2011 2:22PM Larry Everett said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Space Cobra

"In the long run, IMO, I think this makes for a better MMO and is more inclusive, but I can see some players not liking it because suddenly there are no simple, straight-forward answers."

I agree with this. It makes it harder for PUGs, but I want to see how having weird classes plays out in a game like RIFT before I make any judgement call on how ineffective it is to break from the norm.
Reply

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW