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Reader Comments (26)

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 6:15PM heerobya said

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"Griefers are also making their presence known, some by running throughout the world chopping down the trees and apparently destroying the wood so no one can use it and others by digging inescapable holes in starter areas to catch new players and then killing them."

This is why these games, despite some of their sheer brilliance and creativity, innovation and imagination, will ultimately be avoided like a plague by 99% of gamers.

The community will actively destroy itself and scare off potential players. Shoot yourselves in the foot much? How stupid do you have to be to grief noobs with NOTHING of value. Let them grow and prosper and collect treasures and valuables... THEN kill them and steal their stuff.

Oh? You don't like fighting opponents that have a chance at beating you? I get it now...

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 6:48PM Tizmah said

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@heerobya They never give enough advantages to players who don't want to play dirty. They never give enough disadvantages to players who do.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 1:35AM MewmewGirl said

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@heerobya

Not only that - but these players that migrated from Darkfall are trying to get what measly protection you do have in your little claimed area taken away and make it so they can destroy everything you make. For a single person trying to build things alone, it takes an amazingly long time to get some of the materials for various things and haul wood from some place far away because the griefers cleared it all out around you already.

They want to make things even worse for the normal player.

What confuses me is - why don't they just have multiple servers? What's wrong with also having a PvE server? WURM does it...

The Griefers want everybody to be stuck there in a PK world where they can destroy all your stuff of course and are super against having PvE servers open, as attacking people who choose to play in the world where they can be attacked just isn't as fun for them. The Darkfall people want to make the game more like Darkfall. And both of them are worried that their lands will be too bare if a PvE server opens. Which is funny - if the lands will be more bare if a PvE server opens, doesn't that tell you how most people want to play? Why do they have to suffer?

Anyway I'll happily march back to WURM if there's no PvE server by the time my play time is up :D
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 8:56AM heerobya said

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@Tizmah

"They never give enough advantages to players who don't want to play dirty. They never give enough disadvantages to players who do."

This. 10x.
Morality and alignment systems have always always always heavily favored the immoral and evil aligned players. FFA PvP has the potential to be SUCH a good game mechanic, but it has never reached that potential and likely never will because developers simply add in unrestricted FFA PvP as a weak substitute for actual content and innovative game play.

They say "make it FFA and the world will figure itself out!" as if this is the only way to do a sandbox.
FFA PvP MMOs are like Somalia. No one wants to live in Somalia.

Choosing to become a PK should have very serious consequences. It should be an extremely difficult in-game life style that most players simply cannot or will not be able to prosper at. Those who can, those who do, will find un-paralleled reward from defying these odds and surviving and thriving.

Players tend to gravitate towards the most optimal/efficient way of doing things in a game - min/maxing. Problem is in every FFA PvP game to thus far exist, it's incredibly easy and efficient to just rob, murder, and steal your way to riches and power and much, much harder to "play by the rules" and achieve the same level of riches and power.

Fix that, flip the paradigm, and FFA PvP will finally be a win and a strong selling point rather then a reason for 99% of gamers to avoid your title.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 6:59PM Beau Hindman said

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I have been steering clear of the game until the lag and issues seems to have cleared up. I've been back in, though, and having fun. The people are generally nice-ish, as long as you find the right ones.

Great writing, MJ! Can't wait to hear the next one. :)

Beau

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 7:29PM tk421242 said

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Perhaps one of the nice things about Xsyon will be the community as a whole dealing with the griefers. With no npcs or merchants to buy/sell gear from and all items having to be crafted for the most part, eventually the griefing community could find themselves isolated.

Obviously certain things are the devs responsibility, such as the small hole trap issue in starting spots, but once out in the world I think it would be best to have minimal dev involvement in the way the game is played.

It is still pretty early, I am just minding my business at the moment fishing and making bricks and mortar while things settle down and take shape anyway.

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 8:17PM jealouspirate said

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Interesting article, thanks! I'll be following this one closely. The concept is very cool, and the idea of going and building your own homestead or village is compelling. I'm not quite ready to take the plunge, though.

For one thing I think the they're asking a lot of money for what seems to be a pretty niche game with a low budget. I'd be happy to give it to them if it's good, but without some kind of trial I'll have to rely on articles like this to get a picture of what it's actually like.

A shame about the griefers. Hopefully action will be taken against them, or as was suggestd above that the community will kill off many griefers by refusing to interact with them.

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 8:45PM tk421242 said

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@jealouspirate

While I would agree that the monthly fee seems a bit high at 15 for the game, the price currently of 40 includes two free months of play time (or at least it did as the other day-double check me on that)

Today there has been some issues with connecting and while I was writing this the server was down again for another patch, but I will say the devs have been pretty open about the process and added game time when it really was deserved onto our accounts for the delay.

I of course can not say this with any authority since I am just a player, but I would not expect a trial soon, or if they did perhaps similar to WURM with a limited server to just feel out the mechanics and not have an impact on the current world.

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Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 11:58PM thelazyhermit said

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@tk421242 If they were to cut off that second month, and lower the price as a result? $25 for an unproven game with one month sub.....that I might take a chance on.
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Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 8:23PM Vanpry said

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To bad another sandbox attempted that will griefed to death.

Posted: Mar 23rd 2011 10:24PM MJ Guthrie said

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@Vanpry
While I did mention that griefers are making their presences known, I did not imply they have taken over. In fact, I have run into very few who are out to kill you and have met a large number of great people who are quite helpful and willing to assist others.

I think this community has a good chance to police itself; just blacklist problems and band together against them. Now, there are some idiots -- as there always will be -- but there is still so much you can do and accomplish without ever running into a problem. Those who hesitate because of their worry about the bad sort give more power to them by cheating the ranks of good.

I, for one, have found the game to be quite worth it and will continue enjoying it. Even if I do have to run around sans clothes from time to time. =D
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 6:54AM Vanpry said

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@MJ Guthrie

MJ while I don't disagree with you completely (I was around in old UO) it really wasn't that bad. But I'm not going to pay for not that bad. Until these sandbox developers can understand that they won't see any of my money.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 12:06PM Djinn said

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@MJ Guthrie

Ultimately it doesn't matter if there aren't that many griefers. The fact that there is FFA PvP will ALWAYS = I won't play. My gaming time is for me to have fun. I won't risk investing time in a game if there is even a small chance that I can be ganked for no reason and stuff I worked to gain will be stolen. Even worrying about it =/= fun to me.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 4:18AM Lobotomist said

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I dont get it. Griefing in sandbox games.

Why are people so against in game punishment for player killing ?

I mean in real world we have this , why not in simulated world ?

Posted: Mar 24th 2011 4:45AM Ghostspeaker said

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@Lobotomist

In a game like this it seems like the argument is that the community will police itself. In a game where the economy is so central being isolated for griefing has real in-game ramifications. At worst, I expect the game will develop griefer/anti-griefer factions over time, similar to how EVE has with pirates, which will keep a damper on griefer activity. It won't do away with it (that's unlikely to the point of impossibility; there will always be jerks), but it will at least keep it under control. It's also worth pointing out that MJ said in comments that griefing isn't really that big of a problem. Even from the article itself it seems MJ was able to get quite a bit done despite the griefing.

In sandbox games, I tend to think that the devs should keep their hands out of things whenever possible (excluding bugs and actual gameplay improvements, of course). If they weren't expecting a certain level of griefing I doubt they would have left in the open world PVP aspect as they did. They trust the players to take care of it. Besides, what's the point of having a sandbox if the devs are going to meddle constantly? The whole idea is to give the players as much control as possible.

If it were a themepark game I'd have an entirely different opinion because the goals of both the developers and the players are entirely different. But things being what they are for Xsyon, I'm thinking they should let folks take care of it themselves.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 11:59AM Djinn said

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@Ghostspeaker "In a game where the economy is so central being isolated for griefing has real in-game ramifications"

They don't use the economy - they steal. No one wanting to sell you stuff doesn't hurt you if you don't buy stuff.
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Posted: Mar 24th 2011 5:01AM (Unverified) said

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The game seems like a lot of fun. Too bad the griefers have so much room to play. I will never understand why this kind of anti-social behavior isn't made harder by the devs.

Posted: Mar 24th 2011 6:41AM (Unverified) said

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Ya griefers are my issue as well. Self police in such games always fail due to virtually no tools over griefers. Oh well not the game for me...

Posted: Mar 24th 2011 6:50AM Saintbob said

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Griefers are becoming less and less as the days go by.

Dev's have already put 'Safe Zone' at starting areas to prevent people from PK you, as soon as you enter the world, they have also made it so that you can't place a totem and start Terra-forming the Starter area land.

As for tree's and natural resources, they all 'grow' back.

Xsyon Land is huge, it would take almost every single player in the game to become Griefers and destroy all the logs, for you not to find any close to you.

Don't forget that eventually the non griefer player will consume the resources naturally anyway, and then you will still have to travel that little bit further.

What I would say, is look out for Travel features... Carts and the such will be coming in the future, and that will help out alot.

Posted: Mar 24th 2011 9:44AM tk421242 said

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@Saintbob

Good point about travel... we have only started to see the beginning of recipes. Something as simple as a packmule will make a world of difference for a single player that wants to go up into the mountains and gather wood or other resources.

Also, Saintbob here is not part of my tribe but has some amazing videos up on youtube about the mechanics of xsyon. I recommend anyone curious about the game to check his videos out, they were a big part of my decision to try it out.
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