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Reader Comments (31)

Posted: Mar 16th 2011 8:40PM winterborn said

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While I like makeing a class the way I want, I found that Rifts souls are not that great since they dont as much change as I would like.

Most of the soul skills are simular and some whole tree's are not worth going into except for the free skills. To me its just as custom as some other games AA/Feat builds and nothing new.

Each class still has the standard item resrictions and you still can not dual class so to speak. Its just like the Rifts themselfs, all Trion did was expand on exsisting PQ mechanics and expand on the AA builds a little.

That combined with the same old same old game play made me cancel my pre order and spend my money on other new games.

Posted: Mar 16th 2011 9:23PM Haldurson said

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@winterborn
You don't think that having a warrior who can cast ranged attacks is dual classing? What about a backup healer (bard) with backstab (Assassin or Nightblade)? If this is not dual classing, I don't know what is. It doesn't have the same name, but it certainly has the same effect.
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Posted: Mar 16th 2011 9:47PM j3w3l said

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ok for those of you playing spell casting clerics the zero point soul is best spent in either sent or purifier.
sent gives you a free instant heal that is quite decent and purifier for the shield.

Druid 0 point is useless for soloing, damage from pet is quite little and healing benefit is negligent as its a hot and adds very little health

i personally go sent as your able to top yourself up between battles

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 10:01AM Snichy said

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@j3w3l. Agreed. I personally go with Puri for the shield as my souls are Inq (main) with Cabalist so I can just mow 3-4 enemies down at once using potent aoe and the shield gives me the time to weave my spells!
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Posted: Mar 17th 2011 12:48AM Tristik said

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On my 32 rogue (Assassin full with Bard), I have Ranger for my 0 point.

Never bothered using the pet. I took it for Headshot, a ranged finisher that I've used quite a bit in PvP for people that get range on me, and during rift events for when i step back and throw Cadence heals.

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 1:06AM Valdamar said

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Fairly good advice - especially on Dominator as a zero-pointer as Transmogrify is so useful - but don't write off Warden as a zero-point soul because the ranged attack Waterjet is instacast with no cooldown and the heal over time is instacast too - I went Shaman/Druid/Warden for my cleric's melee damage role and in particular it's useful to have a spammable ranged attack when closing in on enemies during busy rift events, because it keeps your contribution up so that you get better rewards. The heal is more use at low level because it takes a while to get the one from Druid when Druid is your secondary soul.

Most of my builds seem to be heading for 30-35 points in each of two soul trees (often to get both top branch talents at 31pts though sometimes just for one) with 0-5pts in the third soul - though when levelling I've always gone heavily into 1 soul until I had the 31pt talent at L31, before going heavy into the second soul. That's mainly because most soul trees seem to have several talents of questionable value that I'd rather skip in order to get better talents from other souls, and also the 51pt root ability doesn't always look that godlike to me (though sometimes that can be said of the 31pt branch talent too) to be worth the loss of flexibility of going so heavily into 1 soul.

So far it's mostly my tanking roles - my Paladin Warrior and my Justicar Cleric - that are going fully into 1 soul (i.e. 51pts at L50 or very close to that amount) - with the Paladin putting most leftover points into Warlord, but 5pts into Champion for the +Strength talent to raise Block/Parry rating - and my Justicar splitting the rest of his points between Druid and Shaman mainly to get the damage absorb shields from both.

I think Justicar is probably my favourite soul in the game, but I would only ever use it as the main soul as it doesn't offer much to other souls.

So I usually have either a zero-point soul or a 5-point soul as my tertiary soul choice in most of my builds across all four of my characters (one for each calling, naturally) - 5 points if there's a talent I want, such as the +5% fire damage talent from Archon on my Pyromancer/Elementalist/Archon Mage role - though I did stick just 2points in Necro on my Warlock/Chloro/Necro Mage build purely to get an extra instacast DoT (Necrosis).

Some souls seem to work much better as secondary/tertiary souls than as a primary soul (Dominator, Archon, Beastmaster, etc.) - that's not always a bad thing though and it's quite amusing to me that my Warrior's two damage-dealer roles are Champion/Riftblade/Beastmaster and Paragon/Riftblade/Beastmaster and yet both use the Riftblade abilities very differently (Champion uses the ranged attacks and buffs - Paragon uses the finishers, the buffs again, and also some area damage as unlike the Champion build it was lacking that) - even though both use Beastmaster the same way (the pet for either added dps or just as a decoy or delaying tactic on an add - my Warrior is 8 levels past where the pet stopped levelling, so I may dump that soul soon) - it's ironic that I love Riftblade, though I have no interest in playing a primary Riftblade.

I have some weird vaguely formed plan for my mage's 4th role to try splitting points fairly equally between Dominator/Archon/Chloro to make a group/raid support mage (just so I have a different role than just damage-dealing tbh) - I have no idea if it will work out, but then that's part of the fun. Experimental builds are something I loved about City of Heroes and RIFT is certainly delivering a lot of that same kind of fun for me at the moment. I just wish the 4th role wasn't so expensive that I can only justify buying it at higher levels.

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 2:50AM Necromas said

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On warriors...

Beastmaster: Duh, you get a pet, it wont tank because it wont be able to get aggro but it will do a bit of damage. Level cap on the pet is 30.

Champion: Not only do you get bull rush, but you also get punishing blow, which is the strongest low level finisher for direct damage.

Paladin: I disagree on aggressive block being useful at low levels, it increases your block rating, not your block chance, most low level warriors that aren't tanks have such a low block rating it wont even increase your chance to block by 1%. Other than that they have an attack that does a weak attack power debuff and a finisher that is a weaker version of punishing blow.

Paragon: Pointless to do at 0 points, you only get a dual wield attack and a dual wielder will be a paragon as one of their main souls.

Raver: What OP said, you get a ranged ability that can be convenient to pull with.

Riftblade: Just wanna note that storm blade gets really weak after about level 20, once my warrior hit the 20's it went down to about a 1% difference in DPS.

Warlord: What OP said.

Void Knight: Very useful for pvp, even against warriors the most common builds (riftblades) use non-physical damage.

On mages...

Archon: What OP said, a DoT and a nuke that are weak but give nice 5 minute buffs.

Chloro: Radiant spores is kind of nice for large battles, but then odds are someone else is gonna be using it anyways.

Dom: Neural prod is kind of nice too even though the damage is low because none of the other mage souls have a no-cooldown instant cast DD spell.

Pyro: You get an instant cast DD nuke that does more decent damage but has a cooldown.

Storm: Nothing useful at all, both abilities rely on synergy with later abilities in the soul.

Warlock: Life leech is bad, the healing's not free, you're spending time and mana to cast it, and it's infinitesimal. The Archon 0 point DoT is better.

Elem: Tank pet, capped at 30

Necro: Damage pet, also capped at 30



Vindicator/Archmage: The pvp souls, they all just give a stun break at 0 points which is nice against ganking, and maybe if you know ahead of time you might have to worry about a stun/snare from a mob.

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 3:45AM Zuljundwumn said

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For mages, the best secondary soul is warlock, in my opinion. It's so good it can combine with any other classes. The 5 first points increases the charges you get from spells. the 5 next give you a 10 % chances when you cast a spell to cast it instantly. Add to that the spell that convert life into mana, plus the spell that convert charge into life, a dot, a endurance buff... It's mandatory for all my builds.

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 6:12AM Graill440 said

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While the soul system works extremely well for pve, its totally broken for PVP. Only a limited number of builds, less than 6 are viable in in PVP, anything other than the massive/heal dps combos and your sol. With players able to achieve 30 plus beneficial buffs it gets so ridiculous to try and kill healers or tanks, the theory being if the healer is dead the tank will follow, this isnt the case most of the time with healing and cc out of control. A morph (Transmorgify) that lets you take damage/debuffs for 30 seconds, spammable fears/mezzes by alternating players (not that alot of folks live long to get feared/mezzed or stunned more than 3 times)

You only see 5 specs on the warfronts and only 5 out of 65 plus other possible combos because of ease of use and the iwin button power they hold. Those of us that play more challenging types must be careful lest we get rolled easily, which ufortunately happens often.

I was never one for being a follower or doing things the easy way, it simply feels cheap. But again, you pay, you play the way you want.

This isnt a question of balance it s a question of pve mechanics being alowed to stack to the absurd and only allow a limited number of classes to win with great frequency. The soul system has great utility, just not for pvp unless of course you want easy mode, which most do and why only these types run the warfronts.

Trion needs to release data on what the top classes are according to their software, not a third parties, and address issues with the underpowered non competative classes and rework the soul trees and buff/debuff situation for pvp because the pve mechanics are simply not working.

Posted: Mar 17th 2011 9:50PM Dudgeon said

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@Graill440 \

idk. I am not trying to be an appologist or fanboy, but I see arguements that the soul system is broken for PVP because their are a few PVP specs that really shine a lot, and I am just not seeing this as a problem.

Not saying that some souls and specs are far better than others for PVP, that is for sure, but I don't think that this is a major fault specifically for the soul system. You see, that arguement can be said for any talent based MMO where you can chose your abilities. WoW has this problem, EQ2 has this problem, I am guessing that AOC has this problem. WAR certainly had some poor options for PVP specs, but there were so few options it was hard to notice.

The beauty of the Rift's system is that there are sooo many choices, I think the amount of IWIN buttons are larger, and given that you can change between your PVE and PVP specs on the fly with little grind investment to set up, totaly saves the the pidgeon-holeing that you would have in the other games. RIFT also has PVP specific soul trees which I am guessing everyone is going to be using, and therefore the higher end pvp will be easier to be balanced. I am just guessing I haven't really invested a lot of time in the game.

I also see this arguement a lot in other game forums, and see it totaly discredited while playing the game. Yeah sure some specs are just purely PVE, but I have seen others really take an non IWIN spec and change their playstyle so much from what others are doing or expecting that they come out on top. That goes for entire classes that are supposed to be OP or gimp as well.

There is some truth to it, and things always are going to need balance, but you can't expect every spec to be equal for every job. The fact that we have so many choices with RIFT, and the ability to have 4 competely different specs per character to change on the fly, Rift actually minimizes the problem that is intrensic to all skill based MMOs with some level of complexity to their systems.

...or so it seems to me :)
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Posted: Mar 21st 2011 7:04PM weregamer said

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The worst choice Trion could make would be to slavishly "balance" all the souls so that any combination was as good as any other in PvP ... or PvE. The joy and glory of this system is that you can mix and match *to your taste*. If you are all about lolz l77t pwn PvP, go to it, find those "optimal" soul combinations, and enjoy it. Total equivalency is only possible with total equality. Even Blizzard, who IMO spend too much time balancing PvP at the cost of PvE fun, don't try to make every tree for each class equally viable there.

You can't have it both ways. If you want variety, you will have inequality. Any meaningful variation will necessarily mean situations in which one or another choice is more powerful. And in ultra-competitive PvP, that means that the "optimal" builds will prevail.

For the PvE game where most people have more casual fun, it's important that any given soul is viable as a primary and that there are useful choice for combinations on each primary, but trying to make them "balanced" too carefully is a losing proposition.

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