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Reader Comments (59)

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 9:17AM JuliusSeizure said

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I'm pinning my hopes on World of Darkness, for much the same reason I assume you mentioned '91 as it relates to the RPG industry. ;)

Fingers crossed!

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 9:27AM Deadalon said

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WOW managed to do alot of good things. Lets not forget that. But the game feels very stagnant now and is just more of the same. There is no new system in CATA other than archeology. Rest is the same old as it ever was.

With that said - other games that are copying parts of WOW are even more stagnant. Who wants to run on ground at snailpace for 2 weeks ... oh wait... none of the latest games even have flying so.. Its ALWAYS gonna be snailpaced.

Clones or not.. none of the games out for the past 5 years have offered something that is better than what how WOW is doing it. Add that to the fact that most of these games dont get updated regularly with new content and have very limited quest system (since running around limits your quest variety) ... and you simply have to ask yourself ... why on earth are they even trying ?

There are ALOT of ways to improve on WOW. Look what latest FPS are doing like Bulletstorm... big epics bosses actually FEEL epic. They shatter the world while even games like WOW feel dead and boring in Comparison.

There are gonna be quite a few "diffrent" MMOs coming out this year. GW2 and SWOTR for example. The question is.. do ppl actually like things that are diffrent ?

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:05AM Arkanaloth said

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@Deadalon I think there's a market for different if it's fun. After playing GuildWars and WoW there's a reason why I still play GuildWars and my WoW account has been cancelled for quite some time now. But as I said the different has to be fun, not just at the start of the game but when you get to the end as well.

For me a fun game is an accessible game. As difficult as parts of GuildWars can be I never feel like it's 100% impossible or something that was just flat out not designed to be what I enjoy.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 9:33AM Laren said

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I, for one, like the wow model just fine, tyvm. A fun game, a persistent world, and a cool story. That is all i want.

So many have failed at the first part... Fun. It is boring to grind. It is boring to worry about 'gold', it is boring to wait around all day for an event, it is boring to tab attack randomly, it is boring to play stupid little mini games. it is boring to collect silly materials for a silly house that I will stand in alone.

Before you guys flame me to all hell, this is my opinion...different people like different things. Also, don't assume I like wow in it's current state, cause I really do not.

Posted: Mar 11th 2011 11:54AM Skyydragonn said

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@Laren
I'de like to point out a bit of something for you.
Direct quote
"So many have failed at the first part... Fun. It is boring to grind. It is boring to worry about 'gold', it is boring to wait around all day for an event, it is boring to tab attack randomly, it is boring to play stupid little mini games."
WoW-> you grind for levels.
WoW -> you grind for gold
WoW-> you grind for gear.
WoW -> you wit for your raid lockout every week.
WoW-> stupid little mini-games all over
WoW-> tab target to attack over and over again...

yet you say WoW is fun becuase it doesn't do these things? Am I missing something in my 5 years playing the game?
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:02AM Dril said

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@Puremallace

Have you taken it upon yourself to become Rift's official flag-waver?

Rift's moved the genre ever so slightly forward. It's not a huge, titanic leap of innovation, far from it.

Also: the reason people flame things you start about Rift (like, say, threads on WoW websites) is because you're always a dick about it (as your comment displays in abundance.)

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:09AM Greyhame said

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My main problem with most new games is that they are not necessarily different enough from WoW for me to want to be interested in them. Especially if they have a monthly fee.

Rift sounds like WoW, but with some random things happening sometimes. SWTOR sounds like WoW, but with a bit more focus on story and set in a Sci-Fantasy universe. They don't differentiate enough (in my opinion) that they seem like they are adding compelling features.

GW2, based on what I've heard, actually is trying to have some different play mechanics that move it farther from WoW while still retaining some of the elements.

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:12AM Greyhame said

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@Greyhame My new games, I mean the new mainstream titles that tend to have more said about them. I know there are a number of smaller titles trying different things and some that I'm interested in following to see how they end up.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:23AM Zuato said

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I think the irony of this article is that WoW copied many games that came before it, but improved certain areas about the genre. It was absolutely nothing new, just a different coat of paint. It would seem we've come full circle with this discussion now that several triple-A MMO's are out or on their way this year.

And flying mounts really don't add anything when you can skip 90% of the content by flying over it. How many level 85's in Cata have actually seen all of the old world changes or have simply flown over them long enough to level their archeology?

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:54AM Deadalon said

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@Zuato

Flying gives ppl choises IF they want to do the quests or not. Would you walk through every zone of WOW to see the changes ? You know how long that would take and how much of a timesink it would feel ?

We all know that MMOs are timesinks. But I was hoping that moving ppl extra slowly (like in Rift) in a very limited landmass was a thing of the past - Like 5-10 years ago... Aparently not since movement in RIFT feels very sluggish and delebratly slowed to slow ppl down while running between questhubs.

And no.. thats not explolartion.. thats just pure boredom.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 11:22AM kobeathris said

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@Zuato

As a former WoW player, one of the most fun times I had shortly before I stopped playing was waiting for a raid to start outside of ICC. We flew up to the top of it to look around, just to see how high we could go (very), then it occurred to me I could still target the gargoyles on the steps below. As a Tauren Warrior, this of course meant it was time to earn by airborne badge. I told my buddy to start flying back toward the ground, gave him about a minute head start, and then /dismount. After a few splats, I was able to get the positioning just right to tackle a gargoyle from space using charge and live to tell the tale. We were both cracking up in vent.

I think mounts can add quite a bit to the game by opening up the world, but the problem is that getting from point a to point b with them is still tedious, just less so. If wow had guild wars style map travel, it wouldn't negate the need for mounts, I would still want a flying mount to go poking around and goof off with.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 12:14PM Zuato said

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@kobeathris Don't get me wrong - there were some fun times to be had on flying mounts, but with flying mounts in Azeroth a majority of the revised content is missed unless a player rolls an alt, and with heirlooms they get to 80 in no time flat, often missing much of Cata's recycled/revised content.

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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 3:21PM Mystal said

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@Zuato

WoW did a lot of things that were never done before in a mainstream title.

Whether it be the mechanical concept of The Global Cooldown (which was a really important idea for a fast paced game that still wanted to be played on a dialup connection), the use of instancing for all major content, within a non instanced world, or even the simple concept of having resources (mana, energy, etc) that mattered within the context of combat, but which weren't used as a way to control pace of advancement. Look at the way that itemization is handled in WoW, it's like literally no other MMO before it (whether you consider that good or bad).

WoW didn't just iterate on Everquest, it stood many of the core concepts of the Everquest "Vision " on their head.

Compare that to a game like Rift, which isn't even trying to different, really. Exact same interface, exact same random itemization using three rarities using the same color symbols as WoW, same leveling range and same questing driven concept with the same "symbols above the heads of quest givers" and so on and so forth. WoW was an advancement of EQ, Rift essentially IS WoW, set in a different world, with a different class structure.

You also must consider that when WoW came along, even though EQ was the most successful model for MMOs, there was another, viable model in the UO/Star Wars Galaxies model, and there were also a number of dedicated PvP games. It wasn't inevitable that WoW had to copy that one model of success. Other developers, if they really "got it" wouldn't be trying to duplicate WoW, they'd be trying to duplicate Ultima Online or Dark Age of Camelot, because those are successful games that never got iterated to the next level of excellence.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 3:27PM kobeathris said

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@Zuato

Yeah, my account expired right after the 4.0 patch came out pre-cata, so I can't comment on anything beyond that. I would mostly be interested in flying over Undercity and Stormwind.
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Posted: Mar 9th 2011 9:22AM Zuato said

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@Deadalon From a developer standpoint, especially Blizzard's, they screwed up by allowing flying in Azeroth since the total revamp of the new zones is now a waste since everyone is flying over instead of checking it out.

Before I quit I never bothered with exploring all that new-old content. I had no desire to see it after leveling so many alts (as did many people I know who have been playing since the game went live in 04).

I'm playing Rift and still play Guild Wars and I don't miss the flying mounts at all to be honest. Rift's mounts get faster (shock, horror) as you level and buy the faster mounts.
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Posted: Mar 9th 2011 9:27AM Zuato said

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@kobeathris Meh, everyone was flying around the capitals on their gargantuan drakes and you couldn't click on NPCs because a single drake could cover two or three in the crowded areas. It was ridiculous. Mailboxes? Good luck. I never understood why Blizzard continued to make mounts larger and larger as the expansions came out.
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Posted: Mar 9th 2011 9:32AM Zuato said

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@Mystal I get the impression that many of the color schemes for items are replicated in many games (I've noticed this) since Blizzard has so many subscribers to help people transition.

As far as resource systems its interesting that Blizzard did change many of theirs to match others, and continues to modify them (Think Paladins in Cata).

Anyway, Rift is copying what works, just as WoW did when it released. It's an endless cycle. I've been playing Rift quite a bit lately and I really enjoy it. There's enough familiar to ease the transition and enough new or different to keep me coming back.
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:51AM relgoth said

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im probably one of the few people that you see saying the genre has been moving forward this whole time. Each game after wow has added new concepts to the game wow clone or not. These triple A games just dont appear out of nowhere. MMOs follow a path like like science does they build upon what works and make it slighty better

Posted: Mar 8th 2011 10:59AM Deadalon said

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@Puremallace

This is what WOW has always been good at. Take things from other games and do it better. Very few games have been able to get the things in WOW any better. They just copy it.

The one thing that the other games have over WOW is usually graphics. BUt.. thats also very limiting factor that closes the game down and for example prevents some of the great features that WOW has. Including flying.

Flying is a natural thing in WOW. No game has come close to create such virtual world than WOW. Not to mention that most other games are instanced so... not even 1 world...
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Posted: Mar 8th 2011 11:32AM Lenn said

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@Deadalon Funny, but I can remember a time when flying wasn't a natural thing in WoW. And even after it had been added in Burning Crusade, Blizzard was quite adamant that we would never be able to fly in Azeroth.

So, no, not so natural after all. And let's not forget that players could fly in City of Heroes before WoW had even been released.
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