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Reader Comments (52)

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:37AM Tom in VA said

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All I want from Blizzard is for them to offer solo versions of the 5-man dungeons (i.e., Solo, Normal, and/or Heroic versions of each dungeon) -- perhaps with a different set of quests and rewards and/or the assistance of NPCs (in the solo version). Maybe that's "recycling", but for me it'd make a lot of "new content" available that I I'm not going to play otherwise.

If Blizzard did something like this, I'd re-subscribe to WoW.

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:42AM Ryn said

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@Tom in VA I agree with this big time. With 2 kids, I don't have the time to raid. I have to be able to leave the game at a moments notice, and that means leaving other people on the hook if I raid. I would love to see scalable instances, right down to solo versions. I know that goes against the whole "Grouping" thing in MMO's, but I would like to see this content too. Why hasn't the industry gotten on board with this yet? I know there is one game out there I have read about on Massively here that scales instances, but I can't remember which one. Implementing this would be big time for me.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:50AM greatscate said

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@Tom in VA

I have to ask... Why even play a MMO if this is what you want out of your games? Dragon Age 2 is coming out shortly and will give a much more robust single-player experience than any MMO can ever offer. It is precisely this type of game-play style that has ravished the industry.

** As for reusing older content in new upgrades / updates, I'm all for this IF DONE RIGHT! EQ2 is notorious for reusing character models or zone designs and not even updating the story / recoloring / anything to the new content. They just shell it out and say, "Here. Enjoy!" Personally, I think Cataclysm was brilliant. Not in play-style or game mechanics updates, but it how Blizzard re-imagined older content. I have not played WoW in years but the idea blew me away... taking older unused content and making it new and shiny again was a step in the right direction for their game.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:53AM Khalus said

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@Ryn "I know there is one game out there I have read about on Massively here that scales instances"

Those would be DDO & LOTRO has some solo instances, plus 3-mans and I thought recently they made some of the larger ~ old instances scale now too. And I suppose you could count EQII with its self mentoring, not that you can solo many instances at the appropriate lvl, but you could mentor down to where its still a challenge several levels higher, or just mentor down with lower lvl players.

I think there are more, but they don't come to mind atm...
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 9:28AM Apakal said

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@greatscate

Because often times playing an MMO in a group format involves playing on a schedule, and that just doesn't work for some people.

However, those people still like to be able to sit down for an hour or two when they get the chance, play the game in whatever fashion they please, and have multitude of people to talk with while they play. Basically, a lot of people play MMOs not for the group aspect, but for the social aspect.

Aside from that, there are solo play avenues of MMOs that aren't available in really any single player RPG. The Auction House is the best example. There are players who do nothing but buy and sell and accumulate wealth. This is only possible in an MMO-like economy.

And to suggest an MMO isn't capable of a robust single player is just wrong. Look at how story in Guild Wars 2 is going to work. Even look at how many different story lines there are worked into the absurd amount of quests WoW offers. Seems pretty robust to me, especially when backed by years of lore, several novels, and a dedicated fanbase to said lore.

I don't think this has done anything to ravish the industry, especially considering the industry is bigger than ever.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 10:22AM Tom in VA said

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@greatscate

You ask a fair question; here's my answer:

--Because I enjoy the "alive" feel of a persistent world with other players. running around in it.
--Because I like crafting and/or the ability to see/buy/sell gear in an auction house.
--Because I like to play in groups occasionally, but having kids makes it really difficult to commit to running an instance in a player group
--Because, let's face it, many MMOs are better, larger, and more dynamic than SPRPGs

What I am asking for would really not take away anything from anyone, but would add a lot of content for players in my situation.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 6:42PM greatscate said

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@Tom in VA

I can't say I understand but then again I am one of those stubborn "old-school hardcore gamers" who believes that to be considered an MMO's, a game must have a substantial social aspects in it's core gameplay mechanics. If a game could exist in which your play style and mine were handled properly, I'm all for it... I just haven't seen an appropriate fusion of the two styles yet, so consider me pessimistic.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:38AM Ryn said

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I think the premise of what Blizzard tried to do with Cataclysm is the only way they could FIX WOW, cause at this point, they had trapped themselves. After BC came out, the old world became deserted. Then after Wrath came out, BC and Azeroth were deserted. They needed some reason for players to come back to the old worlds. And in most respects, they have done a great job resurrecting the old content. I could see more longstanding games doing the same just on a smaller scale.

That being said, there is something missing from this expansion. I can't quite put my finger on it. Most of the new content you need to go through to get from level 80 - 85, I could do without.

Blizzard could also update the character models. Some of them are just so 2004 if you look at them compared to recent launches. And in that area, it wouldn't take much. And also stop using the same building exterior and interiors for everything. Really blatant. They have done a great job with the water graphics, much improved.

I will say that leveling a new character, especially on the Horde side of things is pretty interesting. THis is the best of the new or revamped quests. The Lady Sylvanas quest line at the forsaken front is perhaps the best I have ever been through in any game. I was just blown away by it.

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 9:11AM Sephirah said

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@Ryn
"That being said, there is something missing from this expansion. I can't quite put my finger on it"

Vanilla: 19 dungeons, 7 raids.
TBC: 16 new dungeons. 9 new raids
WotLK: 12 new dungeons, 4 new added later. 7 new raids, 2 "recycled" ones.
Cata: 7 new and 2 "recycled" dungeons, 2 "recycled" in next patch. 4 raids.

Every new xpac give less new content of the previous one.
In a couple of xpacs, new instances/raids could be totally assent if the trend continues.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 9:31AM Apakal said

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@Ryn

"That being said, there is something missing from this expansion. I can't quite put my finger on it. Most of the new content you need to go through to get from level 80 - 85, I could do without."

"Fun" is the word you're looking for.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 9:50AM Ryn said

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@Apakal You are totally right. For me, most of the new 80-85 content just didn't do it. I have a 81 druid and an 82 priest that I haven't leveled because I don't want to go through that content again. I do a few quests here and there on both so it's not a straight grind and won't be as annoying. I went through it with my DK and that was enough for me. Like you said, not FUN!
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 9:58AM KvanCetre said

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@Sephirah
I don't think its fair to base cata off 4.1 and the rest off completion.
However, that said, even basing them off release I believe a similar picture will present itself.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 10:01AM KvanCetre said

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@KvanCetre
Also, vanilla had very few 5 man instances for 60 players. You can't really compare leveling dungeons to end game content
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 10:03AM The Ogre said

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@Ryn

"The Lady Sylvanas quest line at the forsaken front is perhaps the best I have ever been through in any game. I was just blown away by it."

Might be one of the best zone storylines they've done, but certainly not the best playing experience. All that shuttling around without any control of your character from one hub to another, missions where you've got several Elite NPCs on your side to make sure you get no loot or XP from kills, and an ending that's just walking down to the Greymane Wall with Sylvanas (and one of those bright white, flappy things that obscures most of the screen when they're following you) followed by a standard go-to-next-zone quest does *not* make for a fun game experience.

[decided to try out WoW again since I had a 7-day reactivation, but stuff like the above, the lack of hostiles in the Troll, Orc, and Dwarf 1-5 areas, the consolidation of most quests (at least in the 1-20 range) into hubs that you generally get a guided tour to when you finish your current hub, and many other minor things, is keeping me from re-upping]
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 10:10AM The Ogre said

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@The Ogre

Oh, and the biggest one keeping me from re-upping WoW: the removal of the portals from Shattrath (don't have WotLK or Cataclysm, and now never will) to the capitals so that Ogrimmar and Stormwind overflowed to the point where my FPS drops down under 10 when I have to go to those hellholes...
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 2:46PM ThePenIsMightier said

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@The Ogre

Then don't go to those cities? If you're not doing end game content there's not much need to be in THE faction cap city. Just go to Silvermoon or Exodar.
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Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:40AM Xpander said

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and the grind goes on. Old dungeons, new item levels.this keeps repeating and repeating over and over again.

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:43AM Seegrey said

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Depends on the how and the why. Naxxramas in wotlk was a good *why* - lore, and such a small number ever saw it in the first place. The how left a bit to be desired, but that was mostly balancing(having never done it before personally); sadly, that was enough to kill it.

The reuse of Ony wasn't an issue for me, even if it was an obvious reuse: the whole point was to bring back an iconic fight exactly how it was for 80. They did that.

They need to be careful.. if firelands is just MC buffed to 85 they're doomed, and honestly I can see about a 50% chance of that happening.

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:50AM j1083 said

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I'm all about nostalgia, but it can't be allowed to be the "main event." I'd love for old content to simply be scalable to max level, so that it could never really be "old."

Basing an expansion, or a content patch, around just releasing revamped zones gives me a knee-jerk response that says "rip off." I get that, in the WoW example, there's new lore, bosses, etc. but the reuse of the zone still gives me an involuntary impulse to cry foul.

Bring old content as a bonus, don't try to sell it to me again.

Posted: Mar 4th 2011 8:53AM jealouspirate said

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I'm not sure what I think about it quite yet, but it certainly is creative way for Blizzard to release more content at a higher frequency and lower cost.

The bosses, mechanics, and loot that drop from an instance are the least time consuming (and therefore also cheapest) things to develop. Building the zone from the ground up is the lion's share of the work.

So Blizzard eliminates that huge chunk of work by taking a map they created years ago and throwing some new bosses in there. Then they spin it as "it was time to make important developments in the Troll story", even though it's pretty clear that Blizzard makes design decisions first then writes some lore after to make it fit.

So it's smart business, if nothing more. Am I excited about playing them? Eh, not particularly.

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